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[nerdasaurus]

Slipdisco,
I am in a program at one of the brick and mortal (:)) schools you mention. PM me if you want some insights.
Nerdasaurus

[nofantasy]

As the poet says, you gotta serve somebody.

Bob Dylan wrote a Gospel song by that name.

[nofantasy]

I hope this reply is helpful if not entertaining.  I don't intend to spell check it; so for those of you who might find reading such a post painful, maybe you should turn your heads now. 3 . . . 2 . . . 1

In 1994 I got the EdD from Nova  (now Nova Southeastern) with concentration in Early and Middle Childhood Education (closest thing they have now is Special Education emphasis).

I'd say my background and situation at the time was roughly equivalent to yours--not in the same field--but considerable experience and other recognized degrees and credentials.

Most of what the others have said in the various threads here seem correct, predictable slurs aside. 

If someone is starting out and expects the degree to be their main foot in the door, this type of program is probably not the right one for them.  Although I would disagree that Fielding would fit in to that slot;  the degrees from there do have more clout than most non-traditional degrees.

For someone like you (and me) I think it's fine.  It's done me a ton of good, for what I wanted to do with it.  I'm no academic superstar, but I had good solid working credentials before I went to Nova.  I'm in the counseling/social work field.  BA Behavioral Science University of LaVerne;  MSW (clinical/psychiatric emphasis) Cal State University Fresno (home of the Bulldogs).  Following that accumulated the usual credentials for someone in my field;  Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW); Board Certified Diplomate ABECSW, yada, yada, yada.

I wanted some background in special education because helping kids master the school piece is so important if you intend to help them in therapy.  I didn't want (or need) another license, so it was not important for the Doctorate to lead to further "certification."  I had (and still have) no interest in teaching, other than in "practitioner based" situations, and I've had no problem fitting in there.  Lecturer here-and-there, clinical supervisor for field interns--doctoral psychology and master level social work, etc.

I looked at the various possibilities that 1990 had to offer.  Fielding seemed excellent, but frankly not enough structure for me (I need a little something to keep me focused).  And Fielding was a little pricy (I was feeding a family at the time).

I chose Nova becasue they had a "verifiable campus", they were regionally accredited, they actually required class attendance (in the program I was in) and occasional visits to the "mother ship" in Florida. 

As far as being recognized in the "professional" world as distinct from the "academic or research" world, it would be hard to argue againstthe legitimacy of a Nova degree.  For example, one highly visible division head in the American Psychological Association sports a Nova doctorate.  You will see them in other impressive situations;  but admittedly they are usually behind the name of someone who has become visible because of practice contributions (and occasionally journal or book writing).

My personal experience is that in a practitioner world, no one really asks or cares that much.  Everyone seems to know who has a "non-accredited" vs "accredited" degree, but even so you are usually already "in the door" or at least known for your work, so the petigree doesn't stand fo nearly as much.

Curiously, I have had more positive remarks about having gone to Fresno State than anything else (mostly along the line of "oh you must have worked for that degree rather than paid for it like at USC or something;" not my disparaging remark, just passing the joy along).

As far as the remark in one of these threads that someone known to the poster did "two dissertations" and he could "smell the BS" I can only guess what it was he was smelling, but in the situation he was describing I think I get the idea.  Anyway, as with many things that are quoted, the thing about 2 dissertations is both true and false. 

Speaking for the EdD programs of my genre, we did not do "Dissertations" we did "Practicums."  These are akin to what many of the PsyD programs require.  They have to follow APA guidelines in every respect, except it's not research, it's implementation of a study and "real life" problem solving project in a practice setting.  Perehaps these are not included in Disseretation Abstracts, I don't know.  I do know that many are submitted by NOVA to Educational Resources Information Center (ERIC) Abstracting Database, and 5% or 10% are accepted and then listed.  One of mine was accepted and one was not, for what it's worth (hyperlink at bottom).   

I've benefitted from the credibility in practitioner circles by this.  Nothing for scientific journal submission, but it has been seen as an indicator that my work is "for real" which is all I need.  Aand it has been helpful in gaining "Evidence Based" sttatus for our methods, which helps my institutional clients with funding etc.  (which of course helpws my consulting practice.)

Last-but-not-least, while I had not counted on this when I went for the Doctorate, these is simply no comparison in the clinical or educational practitioner world between being called Mr. or Dr.  While certianly unfair in so many ways, it is a fact that quite frankly astounded me.  I would have never expected quite so dramatic of a change.  Everythnig from how clients or patients respond to getting phone calls returned.  There's no denying, the title gets results.

I'm sure you've all heard the old saw:  "What do they call the guy who graduated last in his class from the worst medical school in the world?  Doctor, just like all the rest!"  So in the world of practice, any decent program were you learn something and don't have to hang your head in shame will do the trick.  I hve heard that of all the people who finish PhD coursework, only 40% get the degree.  That is important.  So go for a program that is practicala enough for your schedule and finances to FINISH.  That should serve you well.

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=jay+jones&searchtype=basic&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=au&_pageLabel=RecordDetails&objectId=0900019b800a0d07&accno=ED355739&_nfls=false

[nofantasy]

Though I am having a bit of trouble imagining how the hands-on aspect of professional apprenticeship can work at the graduate level, by distance. It kind of challenges one of the last vestiges of the guild form, the supervisor-mentor and supervisee-mentee relationship. This is a professional relationship relying for its efficacy on incorporating many features of a personal relationship. That could be harder to initiate and develop via distance.

This is a thoughtful post.  One way this is being done is by allowing student's to choose a mentor locally who is affiliated with the University, but not on the full time faculty.  This actually widens up the possibilities of receiving training under someone truly superior in the field, rather than just whoever the university happens to have on the campus list.

[lindakrzy]

Having been a clinical prof. in a research university I find the preference for traditional PhD programs to be overwhelming.  I have investigated some on-line alternatives in my field but was explicitly told they would be found wanting.  Rather than a PhD in my field from a non-traditional program, it was recommended that I look at a traditional PhD in Higher Education - to have a "real" PhD.  I am still thinking about which was I want to go.  I do see both sides but find that the camps are usually pretty well defined.

[daurousseau]

OP: You might want to look at Argosy University's doctorates, some of which can be done in part online. They have an established reputation in clinical psychology and counseling, and have been rapidly developing programs in education. You might be able to cobble together a curriculum that's tailor-made for the interests you describe.

[zharkov]

OP: You might want to look at Argosy University's doctorates, some of which can be done in part online. They have an established reputation in clinical psychology and counseling, and have been rapidly developing programs in education. You might be able to cobble together a curriculum that's tailor-made for the interests you describe.

Although I'm not familiar with Argosy's programs, you need to make sure any program you take is approved/OK with your state's own licensing authority. Each state is different about this jazz, so do your research.
 

[doctorious]

Having been a clinical prof. in a research university I find the preference for traditional PhD programs to be overwhelming.  I have investigated some on-line alternatives in my field but was explicitly told they would be found wanting.  Rather than a PhD in my field from a non-traditional program, it was recommended that I look at a traditional PhD in Higher Education - to have a "real" PhD.  I am still thinking about which was I want to go.  I do see both sides but find that the camps are usually pretty well defined.

This is one of my options as well. I am planning to contact the School of Educational Studies at Claremont Graduate University (www.cgu.edu/ses) to better understand my options (this program has classes from 4 to 7 p.m. and sometimes on weekends and also offers an "interfield" program through which I can take a portion of my courses in other departments, most likely the School of Behavioral & Organizational Sciences and/or Drucker School of Business).

I have an MBA and have an interest in organizational learning and development, so this might be a feasible option for me. I hope to teach management and ob courses one day and this type of hybrid program at a noted school like Claremont might make that more possible than a "questionable" degree. I would also likely complete the AACSB postdoctoral bridge to improve my odds.

Azusa Pacific University also has a fairly decent looking PhD in Higher Ed (www.apu.edu/bas/highered/phd) that has very limited residency requirements and seems very well structured -- though the prevalent religious nature of the school and the program are a slight concern for me. I am not sure whereabouts you are but these are two of my "higher ed" options.

[tireman4]

I am a newbie, so hello. Let me give you my spin or take. First, if it were not for schools such as the University of Phoenix or the Union Institute, we would not have brick and mortar schools offering degrees online. Second, you can earn doctoral degrees from schools such as the University of South African by correspondence (in some cases you dont have to even attend the school). Third, the acceptance of online degrees is growing in the marketplace. As of this moment, they are left out of the Tier 1 marketplace, but the times are changing. Who would have thought that we as a society would even mention Walden, Capella or Union without snickering? Now, you see many graduates working at community colleges and lower level small universities. In twenty years, you will see graduates of online schools with tenured positions. Like I have told people who might want to listen to me, one person will break the barrier. Once that happens, then more and more the barrier will become non existant.The real question for many to ponder is what will happen when brick and mortar universities offer doctorate totally online. What will happen to the for-profits? Will they adaopt? Will they lower their price? Even in education, it is survive or die. Just my four cents.

[jonesey]

the University of South African

Why do I picture one person in an office somewhere.  "Yes, I am South African; this is my university."

by correspondence (in some cases you dont have to even attend the school).

Yes, God forbid you actually have to set foot on campus.  What are they thinking?

Third, the acceptance of online degrees is growing in the marketplace.

But not the academy. 

Who would have thought that we as a society would even mention Walden, Capella or Union without snickering?

Actually, most people are still snickering. 

Now, you see many graduates working at community colleges and lower level small universities.

As what?  Office assistants?  I don't know anyone in the four CC districts in my area who has a degree from a for profit.  There are one or two with degrees from Nova Southeastern, but that's about as close as it comes.

At any rate, it's not the delivery method (online, low-residency, etc) it's the school. 

An online masters from Columbia (TC) or Penn State is distinctly different than, say, an online MA from Capella.

[tireman4]

At any rate, it's not the delivery method (online, low-residency, etc) it's the school. 

An online masters from Columbia (TC) or Penn State is distinctly different than, say, an online MA from Capella.

You made my point. If it were not for the pioneers ( I did not ask you to like them) then online delivery might not be possible. By the way, my grandfather earned a electrical engineering certificate in the 1920's from the University of Texas. It does go back aways.

I did not post to fight anyone. It was to give information. I have earned degrees from brick and mortar and online, so I have no bias one way or another.


But not the academy. 

Give it time.

How do you think Nelson Mandela earned his degree (At UNISA while being imprisoned). I would not doubt his accomplishments. Why do I picture one person in an office somewhere.  "Yes, I am South African; this is my university."

I will admit they are very slow in getting back to folks. Look for yourself Jonesey

http://www.unisa.ac.za/

Again, we will agree to disagree.

[tireman4]

Most people are snickering.

Are you sure? Whom are most? Just asking. I am not even as close to being as smart as you are. I just an ordinary person trying to make a living. My wife attends Walden ( nope, no shilling...just telling) and people are not snickering at her.

[sciencephd]

I am not even as close to being as smart as you are. I just an ordinary person trying to make a living.

This is an academic forum.

[tireman4]

I teach at a community college and am a librarian. Does that not qualify? I am not here to ruffle feathers.

[tireman4]

Folks, I was just providing information. If you would like me to leave this forum, I can. I have not called anyone out. I have not said anything disparaging about anyone. I was actually paying Jonesey a compliment.