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[malinche]

Just wondering how many people out there have issues with advisors or committee members not reading chapters, parts of their dissertation, or the entire dissertation?  It seems that the more dissertators I talk to, the more common it is to hear that their committee members don't read their work.  While, as some may point out that this may actually be a blessing, does anyone else see this as a problem?!!

[carebearstare]

It can be both a blessing and a problem.

I have yet to meet anyone who has a committee full of thorough, consistent, uber-present readers. Indeed, to have such might actually be really insane, especially if they all had different perspectives on your work.

If you have one person who is really on you and will take you to task, that's great. Another who is effective but checks out from time to time, or who skims everything and asks one great question but otherwise just nods will get you by, I think. I don't sweat it if my readers don't always read, and if I have a specific question I point them there. Even one of my profs told me that your best readers are always going to be other students.

Maybe my expectations are abysmally low? I dunno, I think the worst of the lot is someone who doesn't read, but is obstinate.

[goingcrazy]

So far only my advisor has read my chapters as I submit them. This can be a blessing but on the other hand, it worries me. When I get to the defense I am afraid that I will be thrown questions and revisions that I did not expect from my readers.

[shamu]

The lack of significant feedback is often interpreted as someone not reading the work, but that may not be the case at all. As a minimum, the committee members must have read the original proposal if the dissertation was approved and candidacy was granted (one would hope). Once the dissertation prospectus/project/proposal is approved, the committee members may wait for the candidate and the chair to produce a manuscript that is worthy of review before commenting. There is no point in getting detailed comments from 3-6 people all the time when the document keeps changing.

In addition, chances are that the chair and the candidate are the real experts on the topic, so heavy feedback after the approval of the proposal and before the completed draft of the manuscript may be limited from the other committee members. That said, they should still read materials you send them and let you know if there are concerns, but the bulk of the input should come from the chair (or co-chairs). At this stage, feedback from committee members other than the chair will likely be focusing on larger issues.

[malinche]

I guess I should clarify and really explain what I find so troubling.  This is a topic that has arisen from the two dissertation groups I belong to.  One is interdisciplinary, the other is departmental.  In both of these groups, the majority of us are in situations where we hand in chapters to advisors and a)chapters are returned with no constructive comments, but simply a "Good Job" on the first page or b) months go by before a chapter is returned and there are very few comments.  BTW, It is not our practice to turn in chapters to faculty members who are not our advisors or the second chair of our committee. 

Here are my numerous worries:  How much training does my generation of scholars really have if the people who are suppose to mentor us and trains us to be academics in our field are not reading our work?  Even if I think about this on the most basic level selfish level - something as simple as the fact that I don't want to be surprised at my defense by someone pointing out a major flaw. I don't want to be embarrassed either by something I should have known, but didn't know b/c I was not told or failed to "pick up" along the way.  And this may come as a surprise, but I like my advisor. I respect my advisor and many of my committee members. I have a good relationship with all of them.  But it is embarrassing when your advisor writes a letter about your work and some of the most basic details are wrong, or when you talk to them about concerns over an argument in a chapter and they ask you, " did I read that chapter?"  I want to scream "YES, Yes, you did! Remember, it was one of the four chapters you supposedly READ that came back to me with a "Great" or "Good Job." 

In the whole scheme of things many of us in this boat can count ourselves lucky compared to those who have every sentence/paragraph micromanaged by their advisor.  Plus, I can count myself among the fortunate that have never been humiliated or screamed at by an advisor, nor do I live in fear of mine.  I believe my advisor actually likes and respects me, but it is nevertheless hard not take it personally when they do not take an interest in my work.  The only way I can rationalize this is that like all R1 institutions, advisors are overworked and there are too many demands on their time.  Intellectually I understand this, my diss groups have talked about this - and it still leaves us in the same place - with no one training or guiding us through this process.

So going back to my original question, is anyone out there in the same boat? (Perhaps this is only a problem at our institution.)  And is this lack of mentorship a cause for concern?  Will the level of scholarship decrease when people like myself are thrown out into the professional world?  I may have a Big 10 name behind my name in six months, and perhaps my dissertation will have been passed with no one on my committee noticing that I royally screwed up Judith Butler's theory that gender is performative, but will graduate students fending for themselves be the new trend in the humanities?

[My apologies for such a long post.]

[shovelbum]

You are my twin. 

My committee didn't have much to say about my draft, but my understanding is that in many schools and departments this happens.  I would rather have a hands off committee than one that fights over every detail.

However, I think hands-off advisors are very disturbing.  My advisor made less than a dozen comments, all of which focused on minor details of my lit review. 

No wonder so many of us have "fraud syndrome."

[malinche]

Dear Shovelbum,  I know it is sad, but I'm relieved to have a twin.  You are so right about the "fraud syndrome." 

In my evil moments I think about writing something so absolutely ridiculous in this next chapter to see if my advisor will catch it.  And then I think about the defense and how one faculty member would say they couldn't believe I had written XXXXX.  Everyone gasps and looks to my advisor, who then shamefully has to admit they did not read my dissertation.  Just a daydreaming moment.

[martina]

Hello, I was going to say that in fact Shovelbum is actually a triplet - but I got feedback!! I pinned her down to day and a time and I have almost 2 whole printed pages of feedback! It's general, but VERY helpful and I am thrilled - and working - motivated working. Now I look at the thread about the committee and I dread this stage... I have one committee member who dislikes me. I am terrified. He's the kind of person who may not be bothered to read my dissertation, (while the others are) so I may be saved. Then again, he may do what he did on my 2nd comps - let go and attack me... (On my first comps, he wasn't on my committee but he was Dept. head and had to attend so he sat there and played with his Blackberry - and never looked up - not even once). Now I have to face him again...Just the thought of it has me losing sleep. 

[larryc]

the majority of us are in situations where we hand in chapters to advisors and a)chapters are returned with no constructive comments, but simply a "Good Job" on the first page or b) months go by before a chapter is returned and there are very few comments. 

Your advisors are shirking their responsibilities and will serve as Rosie O'Donnell's copy editors in hell for all eternity.

[malinche]

Thanks LarryC.  That brought a smile to my face.

[august_leo]

something as simple as the fact that I don't want to be surprised at my defense by someone pointing out a major flaw.

Maybe you can meet with your advisor or other members to have coffee and discuss some of your ideas and just talk about what you are writing without them reading it. 30-45minutes of coffee time might be less of a burden to them.

But yes, this sucks and they should be reading.

[panache]

Yes, this is too common and I have heard horror stories.  I like and respect my advisor but she is VERY slow about responding to a submission.  A recent graduate with the same advisor told me how he got through it faster than others. He said he just keep gently pushing and reminding her that she needed to read it. A phone call here, an email there, at least one contact at least once a week. an office visit just to say hello.  Not all of the contacts were asking her to read his diss, some were, but he said it was important to keep his face and name in front of her as a reminder. It is a fine art to push someone with power over you without making them mad and requires a lot of finesse.  However, it is a good skill to have that is very useful in the "real" world. This will at least give you an advantage over those who sit back and wait.

P.S.  He also told she loves Chinese food so they met over lunch a lot.  He paid sometimes and she paid sometimes.  Talk to former advisees.

[treehugger1]

I don't know if the almost entirely self-directed thesis is becoming a trend in the humanities, but I certainly have had similar problems with my advisor.

Last spring, he insisted that I submit my dissertation for a defense, even though he had only read 90 pages of it -- once. (He praised each of the three chapters he read -- one was even "outstanding" -- and offered minimal constructive criticism). Then, a week before the defense, two other professors on my committee (who had, thankfully, taken the time to read the diss) decided it just wasn't ready and asked my advisor to call the defense off. 

After the debacle, I explicitly asked him to read drafts, not just supposedly final versions of the chapters and/or recognize the existing problems with the dissertation -- including the methodology and the thesis statement. He agreed to do both in person. The next day, he sent an email in which he not only reneged, but also 1) suggested that I had been unprofessional by asking for feedback and 2)threatened to have me retake my comps if I didn't rewrite the whole diss within a month or so.

It was suddenly clear to me that all this "autonomy" I had thought I had been granted was little more than laziness on my advisor's part. I was just so angry.

I did wind up getting a year extention on the comps, thanks, in part to the Dean of the Graduate College (and in part to the fact that I'd had serious health problems for a number of years.)

My advisor and I still respect each other and have a very good, if somewhat distant relationship.  I have to admit that I'm much happier with an AWOL advisor than I'd be with a sadistic, controlling, micro-manager. Still, I crave -- honestly crave -- real criticism in a way I never thought I would as a Master's student, or an undergrad.

Malinche, I don't know about the possible effects of all this advisor negligence on the field. I, at least, am still deluded enough to believe that I'll do a good diss anyway ....

[goingcrazy]

I ended up having a nightmare about this last night! My advisor reads diligently and thoroughly but my other committee members frighten me as far as what I may get from them at the defense.

In my dream, my other committee members were mad because I stopped sending them my first drafts but then when I did, they wrote a small paragraph about the entire dissertation!

It is frightening when our lives become so focused that we have dreams about our work! I have also been having dreams that I am in a class and am not ready for the exam. I have not been in classes as a student in two years!

[not_a_gradstudent1]

And is this lack of mentorship a cause for concern?  Will the level of scholarship decrease when people like myself are thrown out into the professional world? 

I'd be more inclined to worry about those who had too much advisor/committee guidance through the dissertation process than too little.