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[mgibbons19]

What are ppl's opinions of U Phoenix? I've got a couple nontrad friends working on BAs online. I've looked at their library resources and they look pretty good. But I don't really have any knowledge of the school itself, or if their degrees will be taken seriously.

[dr_stones]

*chuckle*

Real-world professionals . . . not those brainiac intellectuals and their idiotic theories.

[yemaya]

If someone already has a job and just needs a piece of paper for a promotion or whatever, UoP probably is sufficient.  Generally speaking, their degrees do not appear to be taken seriously...especially in fields like business where MBAs are a dime a dozen so you have to come out of a pretty good program to get a job.

[georgia_guy]

We don't take their courses for transfer credit. In most fields I am familiar with, their degrees are viewed very poorly.

[neocon]

I don't know why anyone would go to UoP when they can get UG and grad credit at legit brick and mortar institutions, either online, via correspondence, or at satellite locations, and typically for less than UoP and the for-profits.  Higher education is so readily available these days, online and otherwise, and often so much more reasonably priced than UoP, Walden Capella, etc., that when I encounter one with a degree from a for-profit, it's a fait accompli in my mind that they did not do their homework when selecting an institution, they fell for some slickster's marketing pitch.  Example?  You can get real greaduate credit towards an MLA through Harvard University (Harvard Extension) online; they offer quite a few courses for less than $500/cr hr, taugh primarily by Harvard profs or other distinguished area faculty.  And yet, people still pay over $500 for UoP classes--boggles the mind.

[jonesey]

I don't know why anyone would go to UoP when they can get UG and grad credit at legit brick and mortar institutions, either online, via correspondence, or at satellite locations, and typically for less than UoP and the for-profits.  Higher education is so readily available these days, online and otherwise, and often so much more reasonably priced than UoP, Walden Capella, etc., that when I encounter one with a degree from a for-profit, it's a fait accompli in my mind that they did not do their homework when selecting an institution, they fell for some slickster's marketing pitch.  Example?  You can get real greaduate credit towards an MLA through Harvard University (Harvard Extension) online; they offer quite a few courses for less than $500/cr hr, taugh primarily by Harvard profs or other distinguished area faculty.  And yet, people still pay over $500 for UoP classes--boggles the mind.

That's because the other schools you mentioned have admissions standards; for-profits, as a rule, don't.  You don't even have to take the TOEFL to get in to many of them.  Class sizes are smaller, students get more individual attention, etc.  These are the big selling points.  Also, as I said, most couldn't get into a local State U, let alone somewhere selective. 

[dr_stones]

Real-world professionals . . . just keep saying it over and over and over . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . .

[neocon]

You've hit upon the only real rationale for these institutions to exist.  UoP and the like are not diploma mills, but they are diploma factories, and their standards and oversight over faculty are atrocious--how are you going to have legit quality control over faculty living 3,000 miles from "campus" whom you're paying less than $1,000 per class?  

I still think there are ample alternatives.  There are open-admission community colleges (I've taught PT for one) and nondescript universities which none the less have real campuses and libraries and professors--and standards.  You can often pick up credit through them for less than $200 per credit hour.  I think you point holds on the graduate level.  A lot of these institutions offer PhDs, EdDs, MBAs and other grad degrees to those who simply don't have the academic qualifications.  If you're UG GPA is along the lines of Bluto Blutarsky, what else are you going to do?  

[johnmarshall]

Real-world professionals . . . just keep saying it over and over and over . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . . real-world professionals . . .

Hey, easy there, Dr. Stones; I was one for over a decade.  They laugh at you too, I can assure you.

[minor_t]

UoP has excellent customer service (I call it the credit card application process - if you have a credit card, you've met the admissions criterion) and fancy computers and good parking for the on-site programs.  They sink their money into flash and dash - which are very attractive to people who value the paper over the learning itself. 

For-profits such as UoP are not going away, and brick-and-mortar unis now take them seriously as competition - at least for high return (i.e. high enrollment with relatively low cost) programs such as MBA.  You'll never find the for-profits offering degrees such as a BS in Physics because those are not high return programs.  As long as there is a market for the product, the for-profits will be in there trying to make a buck.

UoP is regionally accredited so it has met at least some minimal level of quality, whatever that means. 

[prytania3]

I discovered U of Phoenix about 13 years ago when I was at my cousin's in California. She's a teacher and needs to continue taking classes for her certification renewals. Anyway, she was taking classes at the UofP for that, and she said it was the greatest scam going.  I think Phoenix was pretty new at the time. Now I'm not even sure if you can use their credits for re-certification anymore.

I can't imagine spending good money to attend that school.

[jonesey]

The major difference between UoP and other for-profit schools (National University, Walden, et. al.) is that these schools are in the business of training (as Dr. Stones has said) "real-world professionals." That is, not academics, but people who need a degree to advance in their (usually corporate) jobs.  A great deal of companies don't care where you got your BA, just that you have one.  The military is another example. 

It's not that people don't learn anything worthwhile at these schools, rather, that these schools fall under the umbrella of "career education" with everything that this entails. 

As Pry noted, one of the biggest markets for places like Walden, UoP and National is Public School Teachers getting their MEd degrees.  These run around $40K...for someone making around $32,000/year. 

[mdwlark]

I don't agree that the students couldn't get in any place else.  Many of the students at our local UofP are very competent working older adults.  These schools survive because all of the course requirements are offered in the evening and Saturdays, so the students can get their entire degree in night school and on weekends.  That is the deciding factor for a lot of people who are working full time.  When academic colleges set up complete night programs, they successfully recruit these same students.     

[jonesey]

I don't agree that the students couldn't get in any place else.  Many of the students at our local UofP are very competent working older adults.  These schools survive because all of the course requirements are offered in the evening and Saturdays, so the students can get their entire degree in night school and on weekends.  That is the deciding factor for a lot of people who are working full time.  When academic colleges set up complete night programs, they successfully recruit these same students.

Good point.  I'm amazed at how many traditional, four year colleges still assume that all students are 18-22 year olds right out of high school...

[neocon]

I don't agree that the students couldn't get in any place else.  Many of the students at our local UofP are very competent working older adults.  These schools survive because all of the course requirements are offered in the evening and Saturdays, so the students can get their entire degree in night school and on weekends.  That is the deciding factor for a lot of people who are working full time.  When academic colleges set up complete night programs, they successfully recruit these same students.     

You're certainly right that many non-trad students could get in somewhere else; some of the non-trads are the best of students.  I'm telling no one here (other than the odd SLAC prof) anything they likely haven't already observed. 

But that does not change the fact that every single MEd or MBA student in the world who could get in "somewhere else" has shown monumentally poor judgment in pursuing these expensive for-profit degrees.  There are tons of fine schools offering online, eve and satellite graduate degrees for less.  If a job candidate has good enough grades to get into an online, eve or weekend program at a major--or even prestigious--university and they did not, I know that their research skills and wisdom are abysmal.  The fact speaks for itself.