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[maps19799]

Since posters have changed their minds in some cases that age discrimination exists, I'm wondering whether any professors or programs have attempted to take on the problem proactively. Any examples?

[mountain_ivy]

Our provost refused to shortlist an older, white, female candidate, based solely on age.  Provost wasn't even subtle about it.

[categorical]

I have noticed that more affirmative action questionnaires are asking whether applicants are over 40.  I’d be surprised, though, to hear that schools were actually trying to hire more people from this group. 

[historian]

The only action I've witnessed is that which is negative---I've seen it from SC to higher up the food chain when a good candidate was thought to be (in the memorable words of one chair):  "too old to be an Asst Professor!"   The candidate was about 35-40   He was quite excited about the younger than 30 females on the other hand..."fit right in"

[balancing_act]

This is sad to see. There are several good graduate students in my department who are over 40, or will be by the time they earn their PhDs.

[aandsdean]

I tried very hard to hire a candidate last year who was in (probably) his early 50s for a new assistant professor position but couldn't do it.  In the same search I also tried to hire another candidate, a woman, who was probably about that same age. 

We LIKE older candidates who bring interesting experiences to the classroom (both of these people were second-career).  We would also hire a young hotshot should we be so lucky as to get an application from one. 

I figure that I'll be happy to get 10 years of good work from someone before either retirement or departure for other, greener-appearing pastures.  So looking hard at someone who is even in the late 50s is not in any way out of the question.

In schools where the search is always on for the latest, hottest thing, however, I can't imagine that the same attitude prevails.

[old_school]

Our provost refused to shortlist an older, white, female candidate, based solely on age.  Provost wasn't even subtle about it.

So what did he/she say about their decision?

[elliegirl]

I am 55 years old and completed my PhD just a year ago. Fortunately, I was hired by a university to teach. I do believe in my previous job as a classroom teacher I was passed over for positions, at the district level in which I was extremely qualified, because of my age. In the state where I live, most people in public school education are retiring because the system is set up for 27 years and out. Therefore, when seeing my age, the assumption is made that I've taught here all my life and am ready to retire. In the process of applying to universities, I was not even considered in one position, and I believe it was because of my age.

[maps19799]

I'm particularly bothered when I have to explain why a school didn't hire me for a full-time position as if the decision reflects poorly on something I did or my lack of qualifications. Some schools passed me over in spite of the fact that my credentials and experience exceeded that of the person they eventually hired. I cannot really say on the next job interview that age discrimination was a factor even though I suspect that's the reason. It has a cumulative effect: another school didn't want you, and whether their reasoning was good or poor, we don't want you.

Why am I blamed for the discriminatory decisionmaking process of others?

[gayle]

I have noticed that more affirmative action questionnaires are asking whether applicants are over 40.  I’d be surprised, though, to hear that schools were actually trying to hire more people from this group. 

Discrimination based on age, specifically for being over the age of 40, is a violation of Federal law.  So it's not that they necessarily want to hire this group, but are trying to develop a paper trail that proves they don't discriminate against this group.

[maps19799]

Thanks for posting within seconds of my post. I bet [name removed-mods] has never had to deal with so much oversight for so long a period.

[yellowtractor]

I'm particularly bothered when I have to explain why a school didn't hire me for a full-time position as if the decision reflects poorly on something I did or my lack of qualifications. Some schools passed me over in spite of the fact that my credentials and experience exceeded that of the person they eventually hired. I cannot really say on the next job interview that age discrimination was a factor even though I suspect that's the reason. It has a cumulative effect: another school didn't want you, and whether their reasoning was good or poor, we don't want you.

Why am I blamed for the discriminatory decisionmaking process of others?

Maps, who are you having to defend yourself to?  Family?  Friends?  Advisors?  This goes back to another, older thread about having non-academic family members, but I had a terrible time explaining to my family how a guy with a prestigious Ph.D. etc. couldn't land a job.  They kept asking "What are you doing wrong?"

(It turns out I was doing some things wrong, but the truth is that even the most qualified candidate(s) will get passed over in job searches due to all sorts of inscrutable and unpredictable factors.)

It is so difficult to prove, or even make an educated guess, as to "why" you didn't get an interview, or the job itself.  My primary field is small and rather intimate, and I've been lucky--I think I can use that word--to hear back why certain candidates were chosen, or why I was not chosen, from many of the jobs I applied for in 2004-06.  This has not always been encouraging, but it has been bracing and educational.

I agree that age discrimination is out there; one of my colleagues, a woman who completed her Ph.D. in her 50s, suffered terribly from it on the job market--we think, though she could never secure any hard evidence, certainly not enough to go to court.

What other proactive solutions might there be?  Anyone?

[larryc]

Thanks for posting within seconds of my post. I bet [name removed-mods]  has never had to deal with so much oversight for so long a period.

Who is [name removed-mods]  and what is his relevance here?

[yellowtractor]

Thanks for posting within seconds of my post. I bet [name removed-mods]  has never had to deal with so much oversight for so long a period.

Who is [name removed-mods]  and what is his relevance here?

Possibly a grad student [name and web site removed-mods]

But what he has to do with the present discussion I have no idea.  Maps's frames of reference and engagement can be obscure, as s/he has demonstrated on other threads.

[maps19799]

Thanks for posting within seconds of my post. I bet [name removed-mods]  has never had to deal with so much oversight for so long a period.

Who is [name removed-mods]  and what is his relevance here?

Possibly a grad student [name and Web site removed-mods]

But what he has to do with the present discussion I have no idea.  Maps's frames of reference and engagement can be obscure, as s/he has demonstrated on other threads.

I'm usually the one asking for statistical proof and evidence beyond anecdotes, and I'm told that anecdotes are fun, and I'm being uptight. How do you know what my gender might be? Maps are gender neutral.