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finallyfullprof
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« on: November 14, 2007, 11:14:10 PM » |
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We are in the process of converting from WebCT CE, and I just finished my "training." As usual, I feel as if I have learned very little and will get my true education when I work with my course shell and talk with others who are using the platform. For those of you who have done this, what advantages do you see in Vista? What seems harder or impossible?
Our administration is selling this as the wonder technology that is going to solve all our online class problems. This makes me even more certain there must be some drawbacks they aren't willing to acknowledge.
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 18,285
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 11:31:07 PM » |
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Is Blackboard Vista different from infamous Blackboard?
Blackboard has powerful online testing features that are extremely valuable. Aside from that it is a POS. It is less a platform than a straight jacket. Want to insert an image into your announcement? No can do. Need to fix the grade of a student who went over the time limit? Sure, but you have to click through seven screens to do it! (If 50 or 60 students went over, you can spend the afternoon clicking). Want to collect and return student essays? You can download all of them with a few simple clicks--but can only upload the graded essays one at a time with many screens and waiting for each. Want to email select students? Just go to the email select students page where all of your students are listed alphabetically by first names.
Blackboard is cutting edge technology from 1997. Its success makes me doubt the capitalist system.
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magistra
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 11:33:36 PM » |
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Advantages? It doesn't suck as badly as Web CT. Other than that, it pretty much sucks. It's not too hard, though. I've been struggling with it all semester, so feel free to PM me if your IT is useless -- I may know what to do.
Two weeks ago I found a flaw in the programming our IT people didn't know about. Hint: don't put any characters but letters in the title of your assessments. Bad things happen otherwise.
Basically, it's a pain, but it can usually do what you want and it isn't too hard to learn. I never used Web CT but everyone admits that this is better. I did use Blackboard, which I miss, but really that also sucked (and apparently has gotten worse). It's just that there are some basic things that could be fixed, like moving files around easily, and they haven't bothered. When you know that much better software is out there you really have to wonder why Blackboard doesn't keep up with it.
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First it was Wolfram and Hart, now it's Blackboard. There's not much moral difference, if you ask me. -- Malcha
Grammar is the chocolate in the buttery croissant of life. -- Yellowtractor
Okay, so that was petty. Today, I feel like embracing pettiness. -- Mended Drum
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magistra
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 11:41:45 PM » |
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Web CT is owned by Blackboard now; Blackboard Vista is their new hybrid to replace Web CT, but it's definitely different from Blackboard.
It's also very clicky, though. If I want to change screens it insists on going back to the main page for everything -- I can't stay in my file. There are three screens, build, teach, and student, which I actually like -- with Bb I never really felt like I knew what the students were seeing. Now I can act like a student whenever I need to. I really don't know what the function is of 'teach'; I'm told it's for group work, whatever that means. All I know is that's the frame you need for doing assessments and grading.
As for e-mail, well, it is to laugh! It doesn't have e-mail (the function I miss most from Bb). Instead, it's an internal-only system, so you have to check Vista every freakin' day, and it doesn't really tell you if you have mail, and I have no good way to communicate with my students, much less do so by just clicking on a few names. No, I need their individual addresses (and don't get me started on how our webmail suckssuckssucks). Oh, to make it worse I was told that you could enable Vista so that everything would be forwarded to student webmail addresses, which I dutifully did, but then it wasn't working so they disabled the system -- without telling anyone. So my students are still sending my messages through Vista as originally ordered, which I don't get till later. Don't get me started. (Wait -- too late.)
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First it was Wolfram and Hart, now it's Blackboard. There's not much moral difference, if you ask me. -- Malcha
Grammar is the chocolate in the buttery croissant of life. -- Yellowtractor
Okay, so that was petty. Today, I feel like embracing pettiness. -- Mended Drum
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onilne_adjunct
Junior member
Posts: 69
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 05:58:46 PM » |
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Want to email select students? Just go to the email select students page where all of your students are listed alphabetically by first names.
LarryC, that's gotta be something that can be rectified. I use BB at two schools, and one of them has the student's names listed alphabetically by last name (the other follows that stupid first name alphabetical format, even though the grade book and everything else uses last name alphabetic). This has got to be some stupid administrator's decision. |
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dept_geek
SPAF by decree, documentor of local meetups, and
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 7,634
through a glass darkly....
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 07:07:11 PM » |
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Want to email select students? Just go to the email select students page where all of your students are listed alphabetically by first names.
LarryC, that's gotta be something that can be rectified. I use BB at two schools, and one of them has the student's names listed alphabetically by last name (the other follows that stupid first name alphabetical format, even though the grade book and everything else uses last name alphabetic). This has got to be some stupid administrator's decision. Sorry. This lovely "feature" is new to BB 7.2 and higher. BB knows about it, and won't fix it. BB Vista may be different; I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. |
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I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. When in doubt, add chocolate.
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magistra
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 09:41:46 PM » |
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Yeah, but ignoring it all together. As far as I know -- and please please please tell me if you have something different -- there is no e-mail function. It's internal only, i.e. you have to check your website in addition to checking your regular e-mail. So no-one ever gets the mail.
But for the record, in the browse function it's first name-last name, though in alphabetical order by last name. Which is probably the best way to do it.
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First it was Wolfram and Hart, now it's Blackboard. There's not much moral difference, if you ask me. -- Malcha
Grammar is the chocolate in the buttery croissant of life. -- Yellowtractor
Okay, so that was petty. Today, I feel like embracing pettiness. -- Mended Drum
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 18,285
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 10:21:21 PM » |
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Want to email select students? Just go to the email select students page where all of your students are listed alphabetically by first names.
LarryC, that's gotta be something that can be rectified. I use BB at two schools, and one of them has the student's names listed alphabetically by last name (the other follows that stupid first name alphabetical format, even though the grade book and everything else uses last name alphabetic). This has got to be some stupid administrator's decision. Sorry. This lovely "feature" is new to BB 7.2 and higher. BB knows about it, and won't fix it. Dept Geek is absolutely correct, it is part and parcel of the BB "upgrade" and cannot be fixed on site. We complained about it a year or more ago, as have many other institutions, and it doesn't get fixed. |
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zharkov
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 08:34:57 AM » |
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Blackboard is cutting edge technology from 1997. Its success makes me doubt the capitalist system.
Especially since Moodle is free* and does everything and more that BB does. (Even eportfolios.) A possible downside is that some publishers haven't created the Moodle version of their online material add-ins. (Although Moodle is scorm compliant.) BTW, eCollege isn't bad, probably my favorite of the commercial packages. (And I've used BB and WebCT.) * Free as in free software; you put it on your own server or outsource it to a server farm. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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dept_geek
SPAF by decree, documentor of local meetups, and
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 7,634
through a glass darkly....
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 02:16:50 PM » |
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As far as I know -- and please please please tell me if you have something different -- there is no e-mail function. In BB Vista, there is no email? Oh wait. That is probably correct. There wasn't any in WebCT, either. You had to log in to see your message in-box. It may be -- and I haven't played with it enough to know -- a way to "alert" you that you have a message, by sending emails. I know you can do this when an assignment is submitted. Maybe dig around for this, then require your students to set it up. |
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I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. When in doubt, add chocolate.
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magistra
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 04:52:31 PM » |
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My school said no -- there was supposed to be a way, but it wasn't working, so they disconnected it. Of course, my school's IT is barely a step ahead of us when it comes to learning the system; your school might be able to get it to work.
You do get a little green star when there's a new post, or message, or whatever, but it doesn't work in every frame. And right now I'm not teaching on-line, so while I'm on my webpage a lot, it's not every day (and I'm not going to check my mail, etc. even when I do get get on it, since most of my students know to e-mail me). So it's a pain when you realize you have old messages waiting.
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First it was Wolfram and Hart, now it's Blackboard. There's not much moral difference, if you ask me. -- Malcha
Grammar is the chocolate in the buttery croissant of life. -- Yellowtractor
Okay, so that was petty. Today, I feel like embracing pettiness. -- Mended Drum
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finallyfullprof
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2007, 05:57:33 PM » |
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Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get the Assessments function to show up on the front page. In WebCT, I could get just "Quiz" to show up as an icon, but for some reason BB Vista is asking me to put specific individual assessments on the front page rather than just a general link.
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johnr
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007, 06:07:23 PM » |
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Want to email select students? Just go to the email select students page where all of your students are listed alphabetically by first names.
LarryC, that's gotta be something that can be rectified. I use BB at two schools, and one of them has the student's names listed alphabetically by last name (the other follows that stupid first name alphabetical format, even though the grade book and everything else uses last name alphabetic). This has got to be some stupid administrator's decision. Sorry. This lovely "feature" is new to BB 7.2 and higher. BB knows about it, and won't fix it. Dept Geek is absolutely correct, it is part and parcel of the BB "upgrade" and cannot be fixed on site. We complained about it a year or more ago, as have many other institutions, and it doesn't get fixed. Now I'm confused (imagine that). We have BlackBoard Academic Suite version 7.2. If I go to the control panel, click on course tools, then click on send email, the click on single users, then get my carpel tunel treated because of so much clicking, the users are presented to me in a scrollable window, in alphabetical order, last name first. |
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"When I die, I hope it's in a committee meeting. The transition from life to death will be barely perceptible."
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magistra
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2007, 06:10:03 PM » |
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FinallyFull --
But it's in your menu, right? They should be able to look at the menu ("course tools") and see "assessments".
You could always create a folder for assessments. And please, call it something other than "assessments".
Have you figured out Power View yet? That's in "page options". It helps in organizing the files on your homepage. It's useful, though still doesn't make up for all the clunkiness.
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First it was Wolfram and Hart, now it's Blackboard. There's not much moral difference, if you ask me. -- Malcha
Grammar is the chocolate in the buttery croissant of life. -- Yellowtractor
Okay, so that was petty. Today, I feel like embracing pettiness. -- Mended Drum
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finallyfullprof
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2007, 10:38:53 PM » |
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Yes, it's on my menu. In WebCT, I usually disabled the menu for students because they never used it and preferred seeing the giant icons. I just learned how to create a folder, so I'll see if I can do that and move it in icon format to the front page. If I could get the coffee cup with the pencils in it, that would be great because students are already familiar with what that means.
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