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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6000 on: November 03, 2009, 03:18:32 PM » |
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Fair enough....:) I suppose a lot of folks don't finish when they think they will. So with that in mind...back to grind :)
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conjugate
Compulsive punster and insatiable reader, and
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 16,690
Tends to have warped sense of humor
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« Reply #6001 on: November 03, 2009, 03:29:31 PM » |
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Sorry, berkeleygirl, but the main issue with ABDs is that their certainty about their completion dates often doesn't match reality. This is particularly true if an ABD is trying to start a new job while still working on their dissertation.
So very, very seconded. It is crazy hard. And I've only got a VAP. I couldn't imagine being tt and trying to finish. Yes. The problems are at least two. First, you can't work so hard on the dissertation while preparing and teaching classes (many of which may be new to you), and the classes aim your attention at a different part of your discipline than that which you are writing your dissertation on (typically). Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth. Quite a variety of challenges face the ABD with a post-doc or adjunct slot. I'm glad I was able to wait, myself. |
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
∀ε>0∃δ>0∋|x–a|<δ⇒|ƒ(x)-ƒ(a)|<ε |
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grasshopper
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« Reply #6002 on: November 03, 2009, 03:33:38 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. |
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« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 03:34:08 PM by grasshopper »
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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6003 on: November 03, 2009, 03:53:54 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. Same here. I have one more chapter to finish and I'm done, no defense, just file. If I am lucky enough to get an interview and then an offer, I truly hope I wont be writing a year from now as I plan to file in the spring. I agree that starting a tt/postdoc while writing my diss would be insane :) But my committee has assured me I will walk in May. I guess this goes back to an earlier point about different kinds of ABDs. |
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scampster
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« Reply #6004 on: November 03, 2009, 03:58:01 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. Same here. I have one more chapter to finish and I'm done, no defense, just file. If I am lucky enough to get an interview and then an offer, I truly hope I wont be writing a year from now as I plan to file in the spring. I agree that starting a tt/postdoc while writing my diss would be insane :) But my committee has assured me I will walk in May. I guess this goes back to an earlier point about different kinds of ABDs. I had a defense date set in August, but several things got in the way. It can stretch out in ways you don't imagine. My defense date is in 2 weeks now and I still could have used more time. Fortunately I have a research postdoc that doesn't care all that much if I started in September or November. I'm not saying that you won't get it done when you say you will, but a SC probably has had plenty of experience with people who don't. |
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6005 on: November 03, 2009, 04:03:13 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. Same here. I have one more chapter to finish and I'm done, no defense, just file. If I am lucky enough to get an interview and then an offer, I truly hope I wont be writing a year from now as I plan to file in the spring. I agree that starting a tt/postdoc while writing my diss would be insane :) But my committee has assured me I will walk in May. I guess this goes back to an earlier point about different kinds of ABDs. I had a defense date set in August, but several things got in the way. It can stretch out in ways you don't imagine. My defense date is in 2 weeks now and I still could have used more time. Fortunately I have a research postdoc that doesn't care all that much if I started in September or November. I'm not saying that you won't get it done when you say you will, but a SC probably has had plenty of experience with people who don't. That's very true huh! My department doesn't require a defense, so at least I've got that on my side. Good luck!!!!!!! and congrats on the postdoc! |
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scampster
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« Reply #6006 on: November 03, 2009, 04:06:30 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. Same here. I have one more chapter to finish and I'm done, no defense, just file. If I am lucky enough to get an interview and then an offer, I truly hope I wont be writing a year from now as I plan to file in the spring. I agree that starting a tt/postdoc while writing my diss would be insane :) But my committee has assured me I will walk in May. I guess this goes back to an earlier point about different kinds of ABDs. I had a defense date set in August, but several things got in the way. It can stretch out in ways you don't imagine. My defense date is in 2 weeks now and I still could have used more time. Fortunately I have a research postdoc that doesn't care all that much if I started in September or November. I'm not saying that you won't get it done when you say you will, but a SC probably has had plenty of experience with people who don't. That's very true huh! My department doesn't require a defense, so at least I've got that on my side. Good luck!!!!!!! and congrats on the postdoc! No defense? Really? I thought that was like every discipline at every school everywhere? When do you get to be humbled by your committee? Just in the comments on your dissertaiton? |
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6007 on: November 03, 2009, 04:40:40 PM » |
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Secondly, even if you set aside blocks of time that are dedicated to your dissertation, your adviser is far away and "out of sight, out of mind." You won't be able to talk to him or her about things you want to know more about. Also, you can't get to the (often much better) library facilities at Grad School U regularly and can't find as much useful at Postdoc School's (often much smaller) library. You're less able to, say, bounce ideas off of some of your colleagues to see how those ideas sound to others in the same field (as the new school probably doesn't have a lot of people interested in your area), and so forth.
It's like you're inside my head. Now, thankfully, in my case, all the books have been read and ideas have been bounced, and I'm just writing. But everything you say is true, true, true. Same here. I have one more chapter to finish and I'm done, no defense, just file. If I am lucky enough to get an interview and then an offer, I truly hope I wont be writing a year from now as I plan to file in the spring. I agree that starting a tt/postdoc while writing my diss would be insane :) But my committee has assured me I will walk in May. I guess this goes back to an earlier point about different kinds of ABDs. I had a defense date set in August, but several things got in the way. It can stretch out in ways you don't imagine. My defense date is in 2 weeks now and I still could have used more time. Fortunately I have a research postdoc that doesn't care all that much if I started in September or November. I'm not saying that you won't get it done when you say you will, but a SC probably has had plenty of experience with people who don't. That's very true huh! My department doesn't require a defense, so at least I've got that on my side. Good luck!!!!!!! and congrats on the postdoc! No defense? Really? I thought that was like every discipline at every school everywhere? When do you get to be humbled by your committee? Just in the comments on your dissertaiton? No defense at Cal, we submit chapters, they get attacked with machetes, given back to us covered in humbling blood-red-ink, and we rewrite until our dissertation scars are thick enough to protect us, at which point we can set a filing date :) I know many departments at Cal do this...kinda weird I know. We also have two oral and one written exam before we advance to candidacy, where we endure a defense like atmosphere. ..trust me, they like feeding us humble pie, its just not for dessert :). |
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prof_smartypants
Treasure-pilferin' and grog-swillin'
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 6,640
Kiss the baby!
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« Reply #6008 on: November 03, 2009, 05:05:40 PM » |
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Huh. That seems weird to me, too. We also had the comps defense and the proposal defense before we proceed to candidacy. My defense was great - gave me the extraordinarily important opportunity to discuss my results in "public" before doing so at a conference or job talk. Really allowed me to work my kinks out and get to the meat of my results without dithering on and on about my literature review, etc.
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Welcome to college, motherf*cker.
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all_my_frenemies
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« Reply #6009 on: November 03, 2009, 05:14:13 PM » |
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No dissertation defense for my program either. If your committee is happy enough to let you submit your diss, the university confers your degree.
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half-past France
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prairiedawn
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« Reply #6010 on: November 03, 2009, 05:25:05 PM » |
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No defense at Cal, we submit chapters, they get attacked with machetes, given back to us covered in humbling blood-red-ink, and we rewrite until our dissertation scars are thick enough to protect us, at which point we can set a filing date :)
Yep, Berkeleygirl is right, no defense for us either. All you do is set the date and file. Since I am ABD as well, I have been following this thread with some despair. I hate this waiting game. It's driving me nuts. |
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tandem
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« Reply #6011 on: November 03, 2009, 06:36:12 PM » |
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NUTS. The waiting is absolutely killing me. I only have a few jobs in my field open this year, and I'm feeling like if I haven't heard back after 2 weeks my chances are gone. I've even started to give up on jobs for which I submitted applications last week. My brain knows this is ridiculous, but my heart is heavy nonetheless. I feel like it's over. I'm done. No more academia.
berkeleygirl, I had a good year out when I was ABD -- a surprisingly good year. I applied for about 8 jobs, had two nibbles, a phone interview, and two campus interviews (one fabulous and one good). I got the good one, a very nice multi-year VAP that treats me like an assistant prof but will nevertheless kick me out this year or next when the folks on leave come back. And now that I should be much nicer-looking on paper, I have this terrible fear that I look passe already. No book contract yet, only a handful of pubs...and if I don't get a job this year and the VAPlove ends, I'm cooked. ARGH! I'm so anxious. Must grade papers so I can drink some whisky. Yes, this is my life.
My point is, it never ends. And -- you might look fresh and exciting as and ABD -- it happens. Play to your strengths, and appear in all interactions with search committees perfectly confident -- not cocky, just solid and sure -- about your dissertation's state of readiness. Don't let any of that ABD angst, nor any over-compensating arrogance, into your voice. You might be just fine.
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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6012 on: November 03, 2009, 06:39:45 PM » |
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No defense at Cal, we submit chapters, they get attacked with machetes, given back to us covered in humbling blood-red-ink, and we rewrite until our dissertation scars are thick enough to protect us, at which point we can set a filing date :)
Yep, Berkeleygirl is right, no defense for us either. All you do is set the date and file. Since I am ABD as well, I have been following this thread with some despair. I hate this waiting game. It's driving me nuts. whew...I don't feel so strange now :) Us ABDs should start a thread where we can bug each other to death with all these questions and worries....I think I'll start one right now :) and tandem...thanks for the message! And...best of luck landing an awesome tt job! |
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berkeleygirl
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« Reply #6013 on: November 03, 2009, 06:47:52 PM » |
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its up...please stop by
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indefatigable
So proud to be a
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« Reply #6014 on: November 03, 2009, 06:48:46 PM » |
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Phone interview was alright, I think. Hard to be sure. Four of them and one of me! Ugh. Tiring! It lasted 40 minutes. Discussed teaching, research and service every which way. They have more phone interviews this week. They'll decide on who to bring to campus by the end of the week and call me Monday or so. They did ask what days work the best for me for a visit, though. They seemed very night.
I'm not really on the market; I just applied to three positions that interested me as new challenges relative to where I am now.
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