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[big_giant_head]

Because someone who would be a really good nurse has the same kind of brain as someone who is good at Art History?  Because most people who can dissect a sonnet would be equally good at troubleshooting a circuit board?

I never really understand those people who say that we lib-arts majors should have done something less stupid.  I'm in a field that I love, that pays me pretty well, and that lets me play with books all day long.  I've done other kinds of jobs.  I'm not good at them.  I guarantee you that you don't want me committing accounting anywhere near your money.

Sometimes I think of my friendly neighborhood English department as a kind of welfare system: Send your children to me: I'll teach them how to avoid a comma splice, I'll bring them up to speed in the literature of (some of) their ancestors, and I'll try to teach them how storytelling makes us all human (sorry--editorial comment there).  All I ask in return is a quiet office and a small retirement fund. 

It sure as Hades beats the jobs held by most of the people I went to school with, even though a lot of them make more money.

[madamesmartypants]

I had a lot of mixed reactions to this article. I did find it self-indulgent. I think Benton has a chip on his shoulder. Yes, it sucks to be working class, it sucks to have all your richer-than-you friends have nice clothes and nice cars and a nice fast computer (non-ESL parents would be nice, too), but then the grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it? I wasn't born wealthy, white, male or straight, but I have still managed to make a good life for myself, and I am very proud of that. No pity parties for me, thank you!

As for teaching the children of the privileged-- I agree with B's point on this wholeheartedly. Universities need to make more of an effort to recruit kids from lower- and working-class backgrounds, AND give them the support they need to stay in school. There's an assumption that because you give some of these kids scholarships, that's all you need to do--no effort to address the culture shock, no attempt to address financial needs (e.g. the fact that kids with no money will need their financial aid before they get to school to pay for the costs of getting to school, buying necessities and so on).

Yet I think after 8+ years in higher education, it is a little naive for Benton to pretend that he wasn't expecting to be teaching mostly privileged kids. Did he think they would--what--move to France? So option #2 might be what this poster suggested:

If Berton feels so bad about teaching the elites, he can always quit and work at any number of working class community colleges in his state. 

I agree--I fully support the public school system, as broken and perenially indebted as it may often appear to be (let's remember that not all of them are that bad). But wait--you say those filthy CCs are not as academically rigorous as Big Name R1? That most of those kids are not 'really' interested in esoteric knowledge and refined scholarship? Welcome to the working class. You can decide either to teach at those schools and try to change that (keeping in mind we were all probably a little insane to go into academics), or embrace your elitist paradise. 

[prof_viola]

I didn't grow up working class, but working as a bartender, a secretary, and other jobs was as important a part of my education as my four year college degree.  It also humbled me considerably and changed my thinking about what I wanted to do with my life and my education. 

I guess that's why I found Benton's article not so much self-indulgent as just plain puzzling.  If he's really concerned about "giving something back," then he could try to make the move to a public institution, perhaps even, as some posters have already suggested, to a two-year public college.  Some posts in this thread imply that that's easy; I did it several years ago, and it was far from easy to convince search committees that I knew what I was getting into and wanted it, nor was it easy to convince them that I could handle the workload.  But that's another story, and surely Benton, with his background and ideals, could make a persuasive case for himself. . . .

If he really wants to, that is.  I have to agree with posters who found an element of romantic self-flagellation in what he wrote.  For me, the decision to leave a SLAC whose students' main concern was partying for a two-year college whose students are struggling to create better lives for themselves and value education as a step to that was not a hard one.  I only regret not having done it sooner.  Where I work, in fact, the degree does open doors, both to four year colleges and to "real jobs."  Some of those are jobs in law, education, business; others are jobs in diesel technology, electronics, law enforcement, child care, computer work, etc. Benton seems to cast education as a dead end for lower income people, or did I misread him? 

[magistra]

His point was about debt, which is valid.  It's a growing, though not universal, problem.  There was an article in the NYTimes about this not so long ago -- it was aimed specifically at those "earn a restaurant degree, work immediately out of college!" places.  You get lots of debt and then the only jobs are barely minimum wage, and that's hard.  And a restaurant degree isn't transferable. 

So if you have a ton of debt from a not-very-good-school where you got a not-very-good-education in a low-demand field, you could wind up in real trouble.

[prof_viola]

His point was about debt, which is valid.  It's a growing, though not universal, problem.  There was an article in the NYTimes about this not so long ago -- it was aimed specifically at those "earn a restaurant degree, work immediately out of college!" places.  You get lots of debt and then the only jobs are barely minimum wage, and that's hard.  And a restaurant degree isn't transferable. 

So if you have a ton of debt from a not-very-good-school where you got a not-very-good-education in a low-demand field, you could wind up in real trouble.

The debt burden students took on at my old SLAC was immense--among the top in the nation.  Students at my present two year college tend to graduate with far, far more manageable debt, even taking into account their coming from lower income brackets.  Also, our cc has many, many scholarship programs--not all based on high grades, by a long shot--so, again, I'm wondering why Benton is agonizing about giving his work and energy to an institution that sucks away students' future opportunities by encouraging them to take on massive debt.  Why not move (if he can) to a public institution and work with students on getting scholarship and other financial aid funding?

Just sayin', as they say. . . .

[sibyl]

I don't think he's whining so much as pausing to contemplate.  There's a whole lot going on in this article about how he feels caught between worlds, and it does him a disservice to say that it's all about whether he should give back. 

To be sure, his is not a unique position.  Education and class mobility unsettle a lot of things.  But class issues do seem to unsettle a lot of people and aren't discussed nearly as often as issues of race or gender.  Not that we shouldn't talk about these, mind you; I just think we should discuss them more.

[finallyfullprof]

We deal with this topic in cc land on a daily basis.  Several of our professors come from "working class" roots themselves.  Developmental education, which we spend so much time and money on, is overwhelmingly full of students from this socioeconomic class.  I see part of my job as helping students bridge the gap between their roots and their aspirations.  The key term here is "bridge" because they need to be able to link with both somewhat comfortably in order to be able to succeed in higher education.  If they feel a disconnection from their families and friends, that loss of support is often enough to keep them from achieving their goals.

I thought his point on diversity was well taken.  Diversity needs to mean more than gender, disability, and race/ethnicity.  Class, geography, education, and sexual orientation should be a part of the package if we are to get a more well-rounded set of viewpoints.

[mended_drum]

I sympathize with the writer.  I think he's trying to think rationally about feelings that aren't that rational at all.  Personally, there are places I feel uncomfortable going (expensive dinners with alumni; the symphony) and things I can't bring myself to do (hire a cleaning service or pay more than $20 for a hair cut) in spite of the fact that I make a decent living now at an SLAC.  I did partially leave my social class of origin when I went to college, and I know that it was my choice.  I also chose the SLAC route for reasons that I don't regret in spite of the fact that I don't fit in socially with many of my students or their parents.  Some of my colleagues have bought or leased cottages or condos that you can only reach by using a password to get behind a gate; I now know that I will never be comfortable in a gated community for more than a weekend.  My instincts and background tell me that I'm part of the group those gates are supposed to keep out, and no Ph.D. is going to change that feeling.   

[stanwyck]

familiar.  Sometimes the conversation starts with something as simple as mentioning government cheese.   

This makes me laugh, because I often use government cheese as a measuring stick for class w/my colleagues.  My SO also doesn't understand my need to keep a can of Crisco in the cupboard.  I don't really use it, but even in my middle age years, I like seeing the brand-name label instead of the black-on-white generic "shortening" label in the pantry.  Crisco = prosperity.

Well, I tried to "give something back" for a few years, teaching at tech college.  Most of my students weren't just first generation college students, they were first generation HS grads.  I burned out.  If kids blow it at Big State U, then they can go back home, go to the local JC, and work their way toward a second chance.  When they blow it at the JC, they can't always even get a job at McDonald's.  It was pretty painful, watching that happen.

That's my current justification for what I don't.  I don't have the spirit to keep doing what I was doing.

[magistra]

Oh, I remember well my humiliation at the thought of anything generic.    And shortening was one of the things that we'd buy that was always generic -- the black and white label.

I can buy the store brand -- grease is grease -- but there are products where I'll buy the expensive stuff, just because I can.

[tolerantly]

1) Does anyone use "epitome" outside of academia or the magazines and nonfiction books that "well-educated" people read, like The Economist or The New Yorker?  (Neither of which I'd seen - except maybe a New Yorker in a doctor's waiting room? - until I was at least a sophomore in college.)

My school calls its yearbook "The Epitome".  Or did.  Maybe things are less grandiose now that the 80s are over.  I always called it "The Yuppie Tome".

My dad was a working-class academic, and as far as I ever saw, there were no pangs of class disloyalty.  Not one.  But then he's not a guy to take accidents of birth all that seriously.  I don't think he was all that impressed by the prep-school trappings, either, though like everyone else he learned the varieties of vicious a**holery they represent.   Which they do.  Somebody got them that money and status, and they didn't get it sitting in a chair writing letters to orphants and widows.  A great blessing of living in the midwest is that I don't see men in pink polo shirts and no socks.  Those f***ers are the worst. 

[finallyfullprof]

familiar.  Sometimes the conversation starts with something as simple as mentioning government cheese.   

This makes me laugh, because I often use government cheese as a measuring stick for class w/my colleagues. 

A bit of a thread drift here, but government cheese does not always equal class status. My grandmother was a social worker with Head Start. In the days of government cheese, they would receive far more than they could ever give out to their clients.  Plenty of middle class social workers and office staff (as well as some upper class administrators) ended up taking home government cheese in the 80s because it was either do that or have it go bad before they could distribute it all. I remember it made pretty good grilled cheese sandwiches but wasn't really good for much else.

[stanwyck]

A bit of a thread drift here, but government cheese does not always equal class status. My grandmother was a social worker with Head Start. In the days of government cheese, they would receive far more than they could ever give out to their clients.  Plenty of middle class social workers and office staff (as well as some upper class administrators) ended up taking home government cheese in the 80s because it was either do that or have it go bad before they could distribute it all. I remember it made pretty good grilled cheese sandwiches but wasn't really good for much else.

Mmm...actually, I'd argue that there's a difference between standing in line to get your cheese and taking it home as a bonus after work.  I suspect that those workers wouldn't have taken the extra cheese home if they would have had to stand in line with the rest of us outside the gov't office, in plain view of everyone in town.

But I agree with what you said downthread, finallyfull:

I thought his point on diversity was well taken.  Diversity needs to mean more than gender, disability, and race/ethnicity.  Class, geography, education, and sexual orientation should be a part of the package if we are to get a more well-rounded set of viewpoints.

[iomhaigh]

A bit of a thread drift here, but government cheese does not always equal class status. My grandmother was a social worker with Head Start. In the days of government cheese, they would receive far more than they could ever give out to their clients.  Plenty of middle class social workers and office staff (as well as some upper class administrators) ended up taking home government cheese in the 80s because it was either do that or have it go bad before they could distribute it all. I remember it made pretty good grilled cheese sandwiches but wasn't really good for much else.

Mmm...actually, I'd argue that there's a difference between standing in line to get your cheese and taking it home as a bonus after work.  I suspect that those workers wouldn't have taken the extra cheese home if they would have had to stand in line with the rest of us outside the gov't office, in plain view of everyone in town.

But I agree with what you said downthread, finallyfull:

Interesting.  Our area did it off of the back of a truck in a parking lot.  So many good things can come off of the back of a truck....

;) 

[irhack]

I come from a poor background--govt cheese (stood in line), powdered milk. My definition of luxury is filling the gas tank every time we go to the gas station. Growing up we could only put in a few dollars at a time.

I went to an excellent SLAC with a ton of grants and not many loans (it's helpful when your sole parent makes half the cost of attendance). I made friends with other midwesterners, and the money/class thing only came up when they wanted to order $5 pizzas at night, and I didn't have $5.

After graduation, with my education, I've done well for myself and didn't think much about class until I went to work (in admin) at an Ivy. Fortunately I was cut off from the students but I was astonished at the backgrounds of my coworkers. My boss made a local magazine with her purchase of a 2 million condo. I know she and her spouse were well paid (I had access to faculty salary data), but they didn't buy it on their salaries.

Two coworkers had families who owned a private plane or were thinking of buying one. When I expressed astonishment I was told "it's not a big deal, it's just like an expensive car."

And I noticed, when we went to lunch together, I would clean my plate, they'd all leave theirs mostly untouched.

I lasted there all of eight months. Now I'm working for a school whose mission I truly support.