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[expatinuk]

Two classes that I took as part of my Ph.D. program should be REQUIRED of all programs...

in year 1: Intro to College Teaching. This was actually required for all grad students before they could be more than just a TA.

In final year: Organizaton and Administration of Higher Educational Institutions. Wow... I learned so much about the BIZ of HE in this class... again, it should be required for anyone who plans on an academic career. It's a chance to learn how to talk the talk before you have to walk the walk!

[august_leo]

I would have taken the second one if we had had it, but we didn't. We had loads of teaching training before we could even TA.

[rockprof]

My #$&% advisor (and department for that matter) did absolutely NOTHING to help or support me in getting a position.  He was insulted because I wasn't following in his exalted footsteps and instead decided I wanted to do undergraduate teaching (see the bad apples thread).  I realized, while doing my PhD research at a very large university, that I was not interested in the academic rat race at that level - my advisor was world-famous and lived and breathed his area of expertise (I have other interests in life, like my family!).  I still managed to land a one-year sabbatical replacement teaching position at a SLAC (my advisor didn't approve and recommended I not take the job!) and now I'm a tenured Assoc. Prof. at a CC and very happy with the way my life turned out.  I talked to my old advisor exactly once (via email) after I left grad school.  My PhD grad school experience was hell, I drank a lot and was probably clinically depressed during the time I was there.  It took me years to overcome the experience.  I actually use his textbook in one of my classes but still shudder when I see his picture on the back page!

[litdawg]

I agree with those who said they thought it was their own responsibility to learn about the job market.  I was lucky to have had a job between MA and PhD programs where I had to read CHE regularly.

However, there's one other thing that I found was really helpful: I was part of the campus-wide graduate student government.  It's not at all like undergraduate student government--I learned a lot about the business of the university while meeting with deans and presidents and sitting on academic senate and search committees. 

Another helpful thing: our department hosted a very large graduate student academic conference.  I was always amazed to see several folks traveling internationally for our conference.  The process of reviewing CV's, setting up panels, assessing abstracts, etc. were invaluable.

[conjugate]

I just want to note that "wherefore" means "why" and not "where."  It's one thing I do tell my grad students.

Exactly.  "Why are you an advisor?"  Some people shouldn't be.

My advisor was of the "drop 'em in deep water and sink or swim" school of advisement.  I learned much about how to search for jobs from other grad students.  It's bad, when you have to learn it on the street — if you staple your CV, you'll go blind; I knew this girl once, she began every sentence in her Teaching Philosophy statement with I, and she died of it.

When, oh when, will states pay for every grad student to attend a good How To Find Jobs class, and avert the tragedies that follow from ignorance?  Maybe distribute free paperclips, as suggested by the group Planned Professorhood, or perhaps the Just Say No Staples approach, but surely we can agree on some way to end the suffering.

[litdawg]

Exactly.  "Why are you an advisor?"  Some people shouldn't be.

My advisor was of the "drop 'em in deep water and sink or swim" school of advisement.  I learned much about how to search for jobs from other grad students.  It's bad, when you have to learn it on the street — if you staple your CV, you'll go blind; I knew this girl once, she began every sentence in her Teaching Philosophy statement with I, and she died of it.

When, oh when, will states pay for every grad student to attend a good How To Find Jobs class, and avert the tragedies that follow from ignorance?  Maybe distribute free paperclips, as suggested by the group Planned Professorhood, or perhaps the Just Say No Staples approach, but surely we can agree on some way to end the suffering.

This is really funny!  "Planned Professorhood"!!  A prophylactic society for academic careers--perhaps those "promiscuous" programs that produce many graduates without preparing them for life should be sent literature from the organization.

[apablo]

I actually have the opposite problem and try to keep my advisor out of my job-hunting process as much as possible. My Ph.D. program was incredibly helpful in prepping all of us for the job market, and had installed several layers of vetting for all of our materials. My advisor has certain ideas about the profession and about the job market that do not at all connect with the realities of either.

Last year was my first on the market and while I gave copies of my materials to all of my other recommenders, I merely talked with my advisor about my plan of attack because I knew that her perspective on my materials would be 180 degrees away from that of everyone else. Things ended up going well for me, and I'm now taking another stab at the market from the security of a multi-year postdoc. After reworking my materials in light of my having finished and defended my diss, and with an eye toward strengthening my presentation, I passed along a copy of my letter to my advisor this time around. In the meantime, two of my recommenders (both prominent figures in their fields and recently members of SCs) went out of their way to send emails congratulating me on having written such a strong letter, and to express their full confidence in my prospects this year.

A week later I got an email from my advisor that began: "Your job letter is a disaster." 

[divinity_jones]

Dang, am I the only person who had a *fantastic* advisor?

Here's what he did:

• told us in no uncertain terms that we would have to start publishing articles before going on the market
• gave detailed feedback on seminar (and other) papers and suggested where to send them
• conducted revision workshops
• introduced us to former graduate students of his who had gone on to successful academic careers
• on occasion, paid out of his own pocket when research trips were too expensive on a grad TA's salary (yes, research trips!  In the department of English!)
• collaborated in joint publications, putting our names ahead of his own on the author list
• attended our conference papers at our home conference
• looked over our proposed job search materials and gave us feedback on letters, advised us who to ask for recommendations and occasionally nixed jobs he thought would not be good for us
• arranged mock MLA interviews
• continued all this work for his grad students even after he left the program and went somewhere else
• has continued to do this work beyond the first placement

He was a seasoned professor, not a junior one.  He published two books and numerous articles during my 6 year PhD time.  And you know what?  Every single one of his grads has gone on to provide the same level of mentoring, because that's what they got.  I wonder whether it's therefore our task to break the chain.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Why would you expect an advisor to be be savvy about such things?  My advisor got his job in the 60s and was recruited into his job by the department chair.  By the time I was on the market things were very different, and things are now very different from when I was hired. - DvF

[dismal_sci]

I think the better students are having their materials looked over by their adviser or grad director.  As always, the students who are the worst writers are the least likely to seek help. 

[phdbliss]

I think grad students should be savvy enough to figure out that grad school is not just about taking classes.

I also think that advisors should direct students to professional resources.

But I really think that it's the students' responsibility to take an interest in the profession, the field, and to take action in his/her own job search. It's not the responsibility of the graduate advisor to hold each student's hand through the process.

If they could figure out the grad school application on their own and had the gumption to believe themselves to be smart enough to successfully pursue an advanced degree - they're smart enough to figure out other things too. Help from the advisor is great, but the advisor is not to blame if the students do nothing to advance their professional skills, expecting someone to instruct them step by step.

[tamina]

I am on committees for students or am serving as a reference for students that I do not advise. When I see some of their documents - like a vita being submitted for a job application - I am tempted to help them fix some things so that they will stand out better. But I remind myself of the context in which I receive these materials. If the student asks for feedback, then I give it. If the student is sending me a vita to help me write a letter - and did not happen to ask for feedback - then I don't.

Why do I do this? Well....often when I make suggestions about what to change students go back and tell their advisor. Sometimes - not often - that person doesn't like what I said. So to stay out of the line of fire, I do not offer advice unless asked for it.

[historian]

The expectation in my program was to learn from those ahead of us ---abd and on the market, to read things like H-Net and the CHE and to ask questions. Some junior people and my first Grad Dir gave some good tips in orientation but the expectation (in the late 90s-00s) was that we'd have enough interest in where we were going to find out how to get there. more advanced people around were always holding forth on conferences, publishing and how to look for jobs. Frankly, in my program (and it wasn't a shark tank by any stretch of the imagination) it was hard to miss. Of course, if you never, ever went to an student events (dissertation workshop, informal receptions or Friday drinks) then you could go through without ever hearing anyone mention anything about jobs or anything but immediate class-based concerns.

That said, I have a former classmate who endlessly complains that he didn't get enough "guidance"  and thus unemployed and unpublished. He was famous among our cohort for his belief he didn't need any and didn't need to be aggressive about seeking opportunities while in grad school. He had the odd idea that his wonderful dissertation work and fairly-well-known advisor would do it all for him.  By the time he got that dissertation underway: the advisor moved on without him because he wasn't advanced enough to be worth taking with!

Sometimes, I do wonder if there is too much of an expectation that advisors will be encyclopedic sources of job-hunting wisdom.  These days, there is a lot of it out there readily available for the abd that might be more valuable than 20-year-old info from the advisor's own season of job hunting!