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[case_insensitive]

Aren't advisors supposed to advise on more than just how to get the dissertation done right?

As an SC member this year, I saw so many vitas that really needed work.  Really.  Basic errors on the vita that made me want to chunk them in the trash.  What's up with that?

And, we have candidates coming to the forum and asking some questions that clearly show their advisors have told them nothing about what the job search is supposed to be like, even in a general way.

Advisor, advisor, wherefore art thou?

[historian]

What I can't figure out is the realm beyond the individual advisor:
where is the Graduate Director?  The more advanced graduate students in the program? I got a lot of my info from them, and from H-Grad, and even from the newly hired Asst Prof in my department. I went and introduced myself to the guy when I was preparing to defend. I figured, and was right, that he knew more about the job search than my advisor who graduated in 1968 and thought that you applied for jobs and *chose* the one you wanted...

I'm a little surprised sometimes that people find their way here but appear to read nothing on the search either in the CHE or in their discipline specific threads or even fora in other places like H-Net. But, then I recall my classmate who did sit through presentations on searching or other professional issues and yet was always convinced that things *should go* a particular way or that he was going to apply "business* models to his search to catch someone's attention. I sometimes think "Mike" is posting here under a variety of names...the reasoning and prep are the same.  BTW, "Mike" did get advisor's counsel, he just didn't want to believe it.

[doppelganger]

Advisor....


Ad---vi---sorrrrr


uh....


OH!  Right!  Those are the things you wear when golfing, right?


Most of my advising on CVs came from here or from sessions at conferences.  I learned a lot of useful things about paperclips and staples.  Physical advisor?  She would respond if I asked questions, but I had to know which questions to ask. 

Like Historian, I'm always amazed at people who think they know better than 45 posters who are telling them something to the contrary.  Makes the SC job easier, but it does always make me wonder if we are losing fabulous candidates who simply don't present themselves well in their application materials. 

[larryc]

Let's not let the unadvised new PhDs off the hook entirely. When I was in grad school I figured it was part of my job to read the Chronicle and Lingua Franca (sigh), to chat with new faculty about the job market, to have people look over my application materials. My advisor did not tell me to do these things and I am not sure it was his job.

[yellowtractor]

Larry, I didn't even know what the Chronicle was when I was in graduate school.  I'm not kidding.  I occasionally saw old copies lying around the department--I figured it was some rag for administration types.

Nor had I heard of Lingua Franca.  I knew the journals peculiar to my then-field, that's all.

[sirrah]

This was a major problem at my graduate university--they did all the professionalization at the beginning.  I think sometimes the advisors haven't been on the job market in such a long time, they don't know what to tell the student.  Other times...I don't know.  It's almost a parallel to the doctoral student who gets through their classes and then can't seem to complete the dissertation.  Some advisors are great up until the end part when a student actually needs advice about their career.  Maybe they also balk at the "put up or shut up" time?
The first (unsuccessful) year I went on the market, I approached our grad director and he was SHOCKED my major professor hadn't clued me in on how the job search process worked.  He kept harping on why I didn't know who to ask for references, what to put in a teaching portfolio, and seemed annoyed that I asked him for a recommendation when he wasn't on my committee.  I left feeling so stupid.  Later I found out that it had nothing to do with me, this professor and my advisor were in some kind of p!ssing contest and the director was looking for any reason to tear down my advisor.  A few months later I was talking to one of the director's advisees about a job interview I had and she expressed surprise that I had found a job listing that wasn't on our national association's website.  Apparently, the director wasn't as great an advisor as he thought--his own students were still confused about some parts of the job hunt process.

[jonesey]

Larry, I didn't even know what the Chronicle was when I was in graduate school.  I'm not kidding.  I occasionally saw old copies lying around the department--I figured it was some rag for administration types.

Nor had I heard of Lingua Franca.  I knew the journals peculiar to my then-field, that's all.

I didn't know what the Chronicle was until I stumbled onto this site while looking for a college teaching job.  I still don't know what Lingua Franca is (wait, just Wikipedied it; okay, "defunct literary magazine, closed in 2001.")  Well, that explains it; I was still an undergrad in 2001. 

Too bad.  It sounds like it was a good magazine.

[bibliothecula]

I still don't know what Lingua Franca is (wait, just Wikipedied it; okay, "defunct literary magazine, closed in 2001.")

*sob*

Bring it back!

I never had much advice from my advisor(s) either. Like Larryc, I read the CHE and LF and looked at people's cvs on line and stuff like that.

[daurousseau]

Larry, I didn't even know what the Chronicle was when I was in graduate school.  I'm not kidding.  I occasionally saw old copies lying around the department--I figured it was some rag for administration types.

Too bad we can't keep it that way. All these grad students creeping into fora. Maybe even high school students posing--to judge by some regular contributors.

Should we write to the CHE editors and encourage them to make it less interesting?

[scheherazade]

Larry, I didn't even know what the Chronicle was when I was in graduate school.  I'm not kidding.  I occasionally saw old copies lying around the department--I figured it was some rag for administration types.

Too bad we can't keep it that way. All these grad students creeping into fora. Maybe even high school students posing--to judge by some regular contributors.

Should we write to the CHE editors and encourage them to make it less interesting?

Hey!

[mssdoc]

When I was in grad school,  my advisor was less than engaged with the students, for a number of reasons. (Advisor was in long distance relationship, taught two days a week, then bailed.) Then the advisor took another job and left four of us to find our way alone at the very end of our program. We all pretty much foundered in terms of jobs, CV, etc., though the remaining instructors did try to step up.  They had their own students, though, so we didn't get a lot of help.

On the other hand, in this same grad school, I taught out of a wholly different department.  That department was fabulous.  Teacher training, CV workshops, Dissertator support groups, etc.  They even circulated the Chronicle to the graduate instructors.  We were encouraged to sit on hiring committees, read applicant CVs, go to conferences, do mock interviews and presentations, etc.

I really believe that I only got a job as easily as I did due to the ancillary department's training. 

[samoa55]

Here I am!  Just kidding.  I, too, was a victim of having a less than adequate advisor through graduate school.  After one year, I decided to latch on to the one of the adjunct professors that was very knowledgeable, and would get advised from her.  Eventually, other students in our program decided to go to her as well.  After the department chair noticed this, this adjunct professor was promoted to be the advisor for the department.

So, my point is if you are not receiving the information you need from your assigned advisor, that does not mean you cannot have informal advisors.

As a current undergraduate advisor, I take my experience and try to go above and beyond when I advise students.  Eventually, I hope to break the stigma of advisors being worthless in some areas.

[voxprincipalis]

Let's not let the unadvised new PhDs off the hook entirely. When I was in grad school I figured it was part of my job to read the Chronicle and Lingua Franca (sigh), to chat with new faculty about the job market, to have people look over my application materials. My advisor did not tell me to do these things and I am not sure it was his job.

I agree with Larry, possibly even more strongly. By the time students are graduating with PhD's, they ought to be responsible for figuring out their careers, whether their advisors help them or not. I managed to do three successful job searches on my own and while of course it would have been nice to have some help, it ought not to be necessary. Isn't this an example of the very kind of self-sufficiency doctoral students ought to be exemplifying in the first place?

But then, I'm getting crotchety in my old age. Clearly I expect too much.

VP

[seniorscholar]

And in addition, we have an assistant graduate director, who gets one course release for placement -- giving workshops, reading materials, reading materials again after they've been revised, scheduling practice interviews, etc. This is always the most recently hired assistant professor (who begins doing this in the second year, not the first while getting feet on the bround). In the mid-spring a message goes on the physical bulletin board and also on the grad students' e-mail list scheduling two times for a preparation workshop for everyone who plans to look for a job in the fall (so things like lining up letters and polishing the search materials and writing sample can be done over the summer and ready to use when the MLA joblist goes up in September). Typically, about 60% of the grad students who should defend in the next year and who are in the city (not elsewhere while finishing the dissertation) show up for this session. It is nice to report, though, that these 60% are the ones that actually do make a well-thought-out search and usually get a tt or vap position for the appropriate fall semester. The others are sloping into the grad director's office in May saying "ok, now that I've defended, how do I get a job for this coming fall."

[hegemony]

I just want to note that "wherefore" means "why" and not "where."  It's one thing I do tell my grad students.