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[zeegirl]

To folks in the know:

How common is it in academia to have a Dean be a functioning faculty member (i.e., teaching classes)?  Where I was an undergrad, my Dean did teach once class a semester, but he came from faculty ranks.  Where I was as a grad student, they weren't.  Where I am now, Deans are administration, are not allowed to teach, and have no rights of retreat into the classroom.  Many of the Deans here once were faculty, but no longer. Once you're Dean, that's it. 

[daniel_von_flanagan]

We have a revolving door for deans elevated from within.  External hires in pretty much every senior administrative position usually negotiate a fallback to faculty status into their contract, and we've had a couple take advantage of this. - DvF

[mellonia]

Our deans don't teach while dean (though they do keep up with scholarship and publishing), and as they aren't "deans for life", they do eventually return to the faculty ranks and go back to teaching again.  Our associate deans teach (a reduced load).

[gayle]

Our Deans generally do not teach.  Occasionally they may teach a special seminar in an area of expertise.

All Deans and (Academic, we have some administrative folks given the Assoc Dean title) Associate Deans have the right to a tenured faculty position if they quit or are fired from their dean position, however they are not fully considered faculty while they are in the Dean position.  Like a Dean can say he is Dean and Professor of Widget Studies but if Widget studies needs a new chair he doesn't get a vote.

[sibyl]

At both SLACs where I've worked, the dean has been a tenured faculty member who teaches only rarely.  Their job responsibilities have been so overwhelming that they can't fit in teaching.  When they leave the job, they return to the faculty, often with a sabbatical intervening.

[yellowtractor]

At both SLACs where I've worked, the dean has been a tenured faculty member who teaches only rarely.  Their job responsibilities have been so overwhelming that they can't fit in teaching.  When they leave the job, they return to the faculty, often with a sabbatical intervening.

Ditto, at 3 SLAC's and a large R1.

[ursula]

At our shop, the deans have faculty rank (full professor), and each of them seems to teach one course about every second year.

[aandsdean]

At our shop, the deans have faculty rank (full professor), and each of them seems to teach one course about every second year.

My situation is like that described by Ursula and Sibyl.  I'm in my third year--last spring I taught a 3-hour upper-division lit course, and this fall I'm co-teaching an honors colloquium.

It's REALLY hard to keep up with a full 3-hour class.  During the spring I missed somewhere around five meetings that I didn't know I'd have to miss at the beginning of the semester when I did my syllabus, on top of the 3 or 4 that I could plan in advance.  Things come up, in addition to the normal workload issues.  It was very frustrating.

I did enjoy the class, though, and I think it was worthwhile for the students.  The guilt was often nearly overwhelming.  I really like to teach, and think it's good for administrators who are qualified to do it for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is knowing the academic nature of the student body at least superficially.  It also reminds one of reality.  But again, it was nearly impossible.

I'm a tenured full professor of English, which I got when I came in.  I don't think I'd have taken the job without this reassurance.  In theory I could go to the English department--not back, as I never was there in the first place.  As for voting at the department, I scrupulously avoid anything to do with that kind of thing, though I appoint chairs so I don't really need a vote on that matter.  However, I'm content to let departments select their chairs through whatever means they choose (rotation, election, consensus, torture) as long as the department is basically functioning acceptably.

I think the non-teaching, can't-retreat deans tend to be in union schools where there's an entirely separate contract--this appears to be the case in both CT and PA, but I don't know about other union places. 

[dept_geek]

At my shop, deans are deans, not faculty. aandsdean describes it perfectly:

I think the non-teaching, can't-retreat deans tend to be in union schools where there's an entirely separate contract--this appears to be the case in both CT and PA, but I don't know about other union places. 

[zeegirl]

Thanks for the answers.  Here's the reason I asked.  I teach at a cc, where I have tenure.  I've been told by students and colleagues alike that I'm fairly good at what I do; good evaluations; full classes, etc. etc., etc.  I've built my program from virtually nothing to a degree program with a handful of majors, trebled the course offerings we can offer (and fill), and added new and interesting classes (that I teach).

However, I've been approached by the admin. to apply for a Dean opening in my area.  I absolutely love teaching, adore my classes, yadda yadda yadda.  However, I am also interested in some administration.  I am currently Chair, so do know a bit of the problems and troubles with administration. It would also be about a 20% raise, though I'd be working an 8-5 schedule, probably even more, if my observation about other Deans' schedules are accurate.

So I suppose what I'm really asking is this:  if you had to chose between something you really liked (teaching) and something where you might be able to make a difference on a larger scale (Dean), would you?  Or would you change any choice you have made in a previous, similar, decision?  Or is this is one of those "if you have to ask, you shouldn't apply" situations?
 

[aandsdean]

Thanks for the answers.  Here's the reason I asked.  I teach at a cc, where I have tenure.  I've been told by students and colleagues alike that I'm fairly good at what I do; good evaluations; full classes, etc. etc., etc.  I've built my program from virtually nothing to a degree program with a handful of majors, trebled the course offerings we can offer (and fill), and added new and interesting classes (that I teach).

However, I've been approached by the admin. to apply for a Dean opening in my area.  I absolutely love teaching, adore my classes, yadda yadda yadda.  However, I am also interested in some administration.  I am currently Chair, so do know a bit of the problems and troubles with administration. It would also be about a 20% raise, though I'd be working an 8-5 schedule, probably even more, if my observation about other Deans' schedules are accurate.

So I suppose what I'm really asking is this:  if you had to chose between something you really liked (teaching) and something where you might be able to make a difference on a larger scale (Dean), would you?  Or would you change any choice you have made in a previous, similar, decision?  Or is this is one of those "if you have to ask, you shouldn't apply" situations?
 

If you don't have to ask, you shouldn't apply.  There are way too many administrators who are doing it because they hated being professors.  They are insensitive to faculty concerns, inappropriately responsive to students (either absurdly lenient and always taking their side or, conversely, obscenely punitive over the smallest things) etc.  The good administrators I've known have always cared first-hand for teaching and scholarship and faculty life, and to miss it is to indicate that you cared about it in the first place. 

You need to want to do the job, but it's totally OK to be ambivalent about leaving the parts of the job you currently love. 

You can make a larger scale difference as dean, though your impacts aren't always as clear.  I regret the loss of contact and mentoring with students especially. 

I sometimes think about going back to faculty, but I don't want to do it where I am now, really, and think I'm a lot likelier to slip back quietly much later in my career. 

Yes, it's more than 8-5, though I have some flexibility.  I don't think a 20% raise is enough, unless you're already on a good 12-month contract--if it's 20% from a 9 month contract, don't do it--it's not worth it.

Good luck...!

[starfleet_grad]

So I suppose what I'm really asking is this:  if you had to chose between something you really liked (teaching) and something where you might be able to make a difference on a larger scale (Dean), would you?  Or would you change any choice you have made in a previous, similar, decision?  Or is this is one of those "if you have to ask, you shouldn't apply" situations?

No. And yes. Stay with what you love. Indeed, asking means that you already know the answer. I have seen several people move from faculty or chair to dean and be gone within a year. Some were let go because they were not as effective as expected, and others resigned because the job was not what was expected. One person told me that as dean, you have so many obligations and meetings and command performances and daily routine matters and staff issues and so on ad infinitum that the goal of making a difference is soon superseded by just keeping your head above water.

[starfleet_grad]

A corollary to the original questions: Some deans fancy themselves as faculty because it makes them feel less disconnected, I guess, or maybe they think it makes faculty regard them more like peers and not reviled representatives of The Man. Others like the connection because that makes them eligible for membership on faculty committees and gives them an opportunity to block or at least delay or water down decisions the administration doesn't like.

[norvell]

Where I did my undergrad, the University President taught one class a year. Someone else did all the grading and other grunt work; the Pres. only lectured.

[robeullr]

Hi,

I served as dean at two institutions for a total of fifteen years. I was a full prof. at the first and was required to teach one course a year. I had no faculty rank at the second, and didn't teach. My experience has been that one cannot do a dean's job effectively and teach. The dean's job requires full-time attention to curriculum design, relations with the community, strategy, and fund/friend raising. The time spent teaching detracts from all of that. Why use a full-time executive to teach what an adjunct could teach? I found that the lack of faculty status at the second institution was insulting. I had better academic credentials that the rest of the faculty, but I took the job because I wanted to do the job.