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[eriro]

Hey All,

I am getting ready to apply to PhD programs (getting my MS) but I feel a little conflicted.  My main career goal is to teach at a liberal arts college.  I'm a TA now and see an amazing lack of analytical ability in my students.  I would really like to use science as a way to teach these (undereducated) high school graduates methods of critical thinking and inquiry, in addition to trying to make them a little more engaged in the physical world around them.  Unfortunately, there isn't a program for this.  I'm applying to PhD programs in Ecology and Environmental or Marine Science, but I am curious if anyone knows of a program that encourages development of instruction or interdisciplinary work?  I will take all advice I can get!  Also, I would like to stay in the New England / Southeast. 

~~Thanks!

p.s. My ideal job would be developing and leading field courses at said liberal arts college.  Also, I really enjoy working with non-science majors.

[dept_geek]

Something like Purdue's Engineering Education program?

https://engineering.purdue.edu/ENE/


Oh wait. You don't want to come this far west.

Try UMass: http://www.cct.umb.edu/

[eriro]

actually, the fam is from Indiana and we are thinking about going back.  although I have recently discovered that there is a whole field called Philosophy of Science that I think is actually what I have been trying to achieve.  I actually started a new thread with questions on that.  thanks for the suggestion.  my husband went to Purdue and is a rabid fan!

[daniel_von_flanagan]

actually, the fam is from Indiana and we are thinking about going back.  although I have recently discovered that there is a whole field called Philosophy of Science that I think is actually what I have been trying to achieve.  I actually started a new thread with questions on that.  thanks for the suggestion.  my husband went to Purdue and is a rabid fan!

Note that Phil. of Science is generally a branch of Philosophy, which is a notoriously long and arduous PhD program with low employment expectations unless your degree is from a top-5 department.  Then, when you get to your liberal arts college, your Phil. of Science class will have very few of the kinds of students you say you want to reach out to: half will already be decent at reasoning because they are science and math majors or minors, the other half will have chosen philosophy not knowing that a prerequisite is understanding the difference between the coverse and the contrapositive, and they'll be taking your course because the ones on Hume, Kant, and Hobbes have too much hard reading. - DvF

[jevoyager]

I'm from IN too!  My background is science also, and after finishing my two BS degrees, I decided to do something different before moving onto a MS.  In part I was undecided what to do (the school I had planned on attending became financially unattainable), so I decided to enroll in a MA in Liberal Studies program at the university I finished my undergrad at. 

It is an interdisciplinary program, so there's great flexibility as to what classes you take - although the grad program overall is small, so that limits whats available at the same time.  I ended up signing up for an education course, as it sounded interesting, and I thought I may one day be interested (well or have no choice) in teaching.  I loved it!  I soon took many more, and ended up working on a MALS with an emphasis on education courses (all but thesis done at this pt). 

While I don't want to teach high school, I do have an interest in teaching low level science courses and especially to non-majors for much the same reasons as you.  The profs were very flexible with me since I wasn't a prior education major and very encouraging, and what I learned is certainly applicable to college courses.  In fact it only reaffirmed my belief that to teach at college a prof should have some sort of training (whether thru classes or a seminar - something).  I would highly recommend trying some education coursework - they ended up being my favorite classes.

[tobyk]

Have you considered a PhD (or EdD) in Science Education? These programs tend to be interdisciplinary. I think they are housed in Schools of Education within big universities (e.g. the Teacher's College at Columbia).

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Have you considered a PhD (or EdD) in Science Education? These programs tend to be interdisciplinary. I think they are housed in Schools of Education within big universities (e.g. the Teacher's College at Columbia).

Not always.  If (s)he wants to teach science undergraduates, (s)he should avoid any degree given in an education department, as this is the kiss of death for a possible career in a science department.  - DvF

[threefive]

The only science courses you would teach at the college level with an education degree are specially designed content courses for elementary teachers. Otherwise, it's all education methods courses.

You typically cannot teach, say, Intro to Chemistry without at least a M.S. in chemistry.

[daurousseau]

Hey All,

I am getting ready to apply to PhD programs (getting my MS) but I feel a little conflicted.  My main career goal is to teach at a liberal arts college.  I'm a TA now and see an amazing lack of analytical ability in my students.  I would really like to use science as a way to teach these (undereducated) high school graduates methods of critical thinking and inquiry, in addition to trying to make them a little more engaged in the physical world around them.  Unfortunately, there isn't a program for this.  I'm applying to PhD programs in Ecology and Environmental or Marine Science, but I am curious if anyone knows of a program that encourages development of instruction or interdisciplinary work?  I will take all advice I can get!  Also, I would like to stay in the New England / Southeast. 

~~Thanks!

p.s. My ideal job would be developing and leading field courses at said liberal arts college.  Also, I really enjoy working with non-science majors.

Seems to me that the important thing is to have something to say when you get there as a professor. At Reed, for example, which shines both in biology and in interdisciplinary teaching. You can figure out how to integrate the materials without recourse to pedgagogical courses. Your brain and your future colleagues should suffice.

[twofish]

The first thing is to major in a science domain that you have some inherent interest in.  If you want to inspire students with passion, it has to be a topic in which you have passion in.

Once you are working on your Ph.D., you can do supplemental reading about educational approaches and methods of instruction.  You will have to find your own time to do this, since people in the sciences tend to think that what science education departments offer is useless.  (It isn't.)

Philosophy of science is something that you probably will have to do some independent reading about also. 

[lacohen]

I'm a PhD student in an interdisciplinary program in Math and Science Education.  I do physics education, so I'm less familar with programs in biology.  There are a handful of PhD program in physics in which the depts. let grad students do their dissertations in physics education and still get a PhD in physics.   I know U. Maryland at College Park has a great physics. ed. group in the physics dept. with several funded projects and multiple professors.  Also U. Minnesota has one or two physics profs. who do work in physics ed.  Perhaps something similar exists in ecology or biology?
I agree with the prior posts, if you really want to teach science you need at least a masters in the science discipline.
However, I would caution you that in science education I've often found that scientists who do some side work in science education and educators who work in science education often don't talk to each other.  For example, the two groups tend to publish in different journals.  There are a handful of science journals which have special editions dedicated to science education that publish articles by scientists, not science educators.  Researchers interested in science education who work in schools of education tend to publish in learning science or cognitive science type journals.

[twofish]

\
However, I would caution you that in science education I've often found that scientists who do some side work in science education and educators who work in science education often don't talk to each other.

There is also a huge amount of snobbishness on the part of some researchers, who look down on educators and even other scientists that do a lot of education work.  In the science departments, undergraduate and K-12 work doesn't bring in either much prestige or grant money, and spending too much time on education is a sure way of not getting tenure at the big research universities.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

\
However, I would caution you that in science education I've often found that scientists who do some side work in science education and educators who work in science education often don't talk to each other.

There is also a huge amount of snobbishness on the part of some researchers, who look down on educators and even other scientists that do a lot of education work.

There might be a tiny few that feel this way, but most academic scientists - even in RU/VH universities like mine - respect efforts at improving education of students in their field, and completely understand the importance of such efforts.  After all, for most of us 25-50% of our appointment is instructional.  It is quite common for people in STEM fields to start working on educational issues later in their careers, and most professional societies have an extensive component devoted to K-16 education.

This is different from the attitudes some professors feel towards science efforts in Education departments, or towards "science education" as an academic topic.  What they do respect is hands-on scientists/mathematicians who are working on practical issues of improving education, but the object of that respect has to have genuine credentials as a scientist.

In the science departments, undergraduate and K-12 work doesn't bring in either much prestige or grant money, and spending too much time on education is a sure way of not getting tenure at the big research universities.

It is true that teaching and educational innovation will not contribute towards tenure or promotion at top universities, except that inadequate teaching is a common reason people are denied tenure in such settings.

Many grants - certainly all the NSF grants I have had - have a K16 outreach component, and NSF allocates a considerable sum of money to grants in science education. - DvF