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[bhavani]

I would very much appreciate any and all information concerning Yonsei University, Seoul, as I'm in the process of applying for a TT position in the humanities there. My own background is in East Asian Studies, with a PhD and post-doc taken at US universities. I originally hail from the EU. I'm also wondering whether experience outside the US would be seen as an asset or a hindrance in the event that I try to re-enter the US job market. I should also mention that I studied at a high-ranking private university in Tokyo during my undergraduate years. I wonder whether the situation at Yonsei is in any way comparable.

Many thanks in advance,
bhavani

[just_dave]

As a tenured full-professor at a lower-tier Japanese SLAC ("Department of Language and Culture") I strongly suspect that your experience at a Korean university (ditto most Japanese and Middle Eastern universities) would be seen as something you'd have to convince search committees to ignore.  Even working at someplace like Seoul National University might not be viewed as comparable to working in the US.

In short, unless you could published yourself to eminence in your field, moving from an Asian university to a US university will be an uphill battles -- and of course you'll have to be willing to accept a $15-20,000 a year pay drop to "go back home."

A year or so overseas is certainly better than being unemployed in the US...but by much in the eyes of most search committees (IMHO).  Also realize that in all likelihood you will be teaching courses that are almost on the high school level (that's certainly the case for most of my classes in Japan). 

[bhavani]

just_dave,

Thank you very much for your input. Clearly, I was hoping to hear that Yonsei had a similar reputation as, say, Waseda, Sophia, or Keio University (unless you'd consider their level as high-school as well?). Quite a number of faculty at Yonsei (Korean as well as international) have PhD's from Harvard, Duke, Chicago etc (I'm not sure this is the case with the three schools mentioned above), for which reason I was imagining Yonsei to have a somewhat corresponding type of academic culture?

I do realize that leaving the US is problematic in more than one way. However, it is understood that opportunities in my field are extremely scarce, and that bringing one's research and related materials up-to-date during an extended stay in Asia (i.e., longer than the duration of the typical 3-6 month research grant) may serve one well in the end as funding opportunities are increasingly harder to get by. In other words, jump-starting a new research agenda during a stay in Asia is favorable over staying put in the US and desperately trying to fit into a school while making little progress overall.

The job ad said that "positions are for two years, renewable, with a minimum commitment of one year." This sounds to me as if the jobs in question were geared towards people (like myself) who are undecided as of yet. But maybe this is code for something that I'm not prepared to encounter?

Let me just add that I have witnessed (during my post-doc appointment) how PhD's from Yale, Princeton, Columbia etc failed to secure positions in related areas despite their highly qualified backgrounds, while I, coming from a large state university without the prestige or connections of the more reputable programs, landed my post-doc fellowship because of the specific topics that I covered. I decided that if everything is such a gamble, I can no longer afford to consider my options exclusively from a "rational" point of view. To me, right now, the most pressing issue is to add new substance to my work, something that is really hard to accomplish in the US. I also feel that I cannot afford to speculate any further about the job market. If I were offered a job at Yonsei, I would probably have to call myself very lucky. That is the bottom line, as puzzling and problematic as it may be.

Again, thank you for your feedback --

regards,
bhavani

[just_dave]

jThank you very much for your input. Clearly, I was hoping to hear that Yonsei had a similar reputation as, say, Waseda, Sophia, or Keio University (unless you'd consider their level as high-school as well?). Quite a number of faculty at Yonsei (Korean as well as international) have PhD's from Harvard, Duke, Chicago etc (I'm not sure this is the case with the three schools mentioned above), for which reason I was imagining Yonsei to have a somewhat corresponding type of academic culture?

Honestly, I don't know anything at all about Yonsei's reputation.  It may very well be a university of the highest rank in Korea.  On the other hand, I wouldn't expect members of a US search committee to have any awareness of its reputation (good or bad) either.

I do realize that leaving the US is problematic in more than one way. However, it is understood that opportunities in my field are extremely scarce, and that bringing one's research and related materials up-to-date during an extended stay in Asia (i.e., longer than the duration of the typical 3-6 month research grant) may serve one well in the end as funding opportunities are increasingly harder to get by. In other words, jump-starting a new research agenda during a stay in Asia is favorable over staying put in the US and desperately trying to fit into a school while making little progress overall.

Actually, in many way, I have a huge advantage over many of my US colleagues in terms of research funding.  Most full-time (i.e. "tenured") faculty at Japanese universities automatically get a research budget of about $5000 a yet (which is fine in the humanities) as well as other research subsidies and support.  It is harder for me to attend the large conferences in the US regularly but while doing my dissertation (at the University of York) it became clear that my resources back at my Japanese university were far better than those "enjoyed" by either of my supervisors.  I've got an office crammed with equipment, a new top fo the line computer every couple of years, and lots and lots of free time.

Additionally, precisely because our program is considerably less developed/set in stone, I've been able to develop courses that I probably would never have gotten to teach in the US.  For example, I teach several courses in my research specialty.  If I were in at a US university, I'd be lucky to get to slip a bit of my research into the backdoor of some other course already  in the curriculum.

The job ad said that "positions are for two years, renewable, with a minimum commitment of one year."

I don't know what the situation is at Korean universities but in Japan there are generally two types of contract:  full faculty positions which are essentially "tenured" from day one, and contract positions usually limited to 2-years and often non-renewable. 

This sounds to me as if the jobs in question were geared towards people (like myself) who are undecided as of yet. But maybe this is code for something that I'm not prepared to encounter?

If you'd like to send me a link to the job announcement in a PM, I'd be glad to offer my "read" of the wording.

Let me just add that I have witnessed (during my post-doc appointment) how PhD's from Yale, Princeton, Columbia etc failed to secure positions in related areas despite their highly qualified backgrounds, while I, coming from a large state university without the prestige or connections of the more reputable programs, landed my post-doc fellowship because of the specific topics that I covered.

Having a marketable specialty is EVERYTHING in the US job market today.  Unfortunately, mine is virtually unknown.

feel that I cannot afford to speculate any further about the job market. If I were offered a job at Yonsei, I would probably have to call myself very lucky.

I'd definitely, take the position at Yonsei if it's offered.  I just wanted to point out that the experience could go either way.  Personally, I've been overseas for over 25 years now and have loved my life.

--Don

[just_dave]

I've been doing a bit of reading on Yonsei University and it does indeed seem to have an excellent reputation -- and a strong interesting in further strengthening that reputation.  Particularly for someone with a degree in East Asian Studies, a job at a respected Asian university should be a plus in terms of competing for tt jobs in the US.  If fact, it would almost seem like a requirement.

[bhavani]

I would like to take you up on your offer and PM you said position announcement.  A critical review would be most appreciated.

thank you,
bhavani

[yvan1]

Hi,

I would not be worried by the reputation of the university. It is known as one of the three best in Korea ("SKY"), where Y refer to Yonsei, S to Seoul National University and K to Korea University.

However, I would worry about other things such as the very high cost of living (except if accomodation is provided), and language poor skills: I mean even cab driver do not understand the word aiport. So even ordering a coffee becomes an ordeal.

The food is healthy !

[just_dave]

...and language poor skills: I mean even cab driver do not understand the word aiport. So even ordering a coffee becomes an ordeal.

Well, of course it will (and should) be a linguistic ordeal for THE FOREIGNER to order coffee. 

The bigger problem might be the linguistics level of your students.  Since Yonsei is at the top of the Korean university food change, you'll likely have students with better than aveage English skills.  Some may in fact be native speakers having lived some or all of their lives in the US.  But others will have come up through the Korean EFL education machine and are unlikely to have a natural reading level much beyond that of a 5th grader (which is actually pretty darn good in terms of foreign language competence).  And that will be a problem when you want to assign post-grad level readings in a course.

[yvan1]

No ! ordering a coffee in English should not be an ordeal for a Foreigners. Waiters in Asia know how to say coffee in English, and cab drivers in Asia also know the meaning of the word Airport, even in places like Cambodia and Burma. But in Korea and China, this is a different story. Just prepare yourself to spread your arm like a plane to say you want to go to the airport when you take a cab !

[eatapeach]

No ! ordering a coffee in English should not be an ordeal for a Foreigners. Waiters in Asia know how to say coffee in English, and cab drivers in Asia also know the meaning of the word Airport, even in places like Cambodia and Burma. But in Korea and China, this is a different story. Just prepare yourself to spread your arm like a plane to say you want to go to the airport when you take a cab !

I did not find this to be true is several places in China.  Taxi drivers were my lifesavers and often helped when others couldn't. Although I found most people to be quite helpful when asked.  Although more experienced drivers are best.  You can tell how experienced a driver is by his registration number prominently posted on the visor.  If anyone has a number over 250,000 they have been driving only in the last two years because that was the number for the newbies when I was there.  Also, China mandated a couple of years ago that taxi drivers learn 150 key phrases in English each year in prep for the Olympic games.  I am sure that things related to airports are included in these phrases.  I have no experience with Korean taxi drivers but I doubt this is true.  Taxi drivers are an incredible resource in most places you might find yourself, except perhaps New York if all the stereotypical jokes are true.

The problem with ordering coffee in Asia is that in many places, it is not a common drink except perhaps in areas that cater to tourists. (I was pleased to learn that the Chinese have taken out the Starbucks that was in the middle of the Forbidden City).  Try ordering kava root, kvas or fermented yak milk in any small town midwestern restaurant and see if they know what you are talking about.  Just order tea instead.

[just_dave]

No ! ordering a coffee in English should not be an ordeal for a Foreigners.

I don't want to be living in a country that caters to my expat whims.  I want to struggle.  I want to be forced on a daily basis to confront and learn from different ways of being (and of course speaking).

I don't want "the Raj."

[yvan1]

To eatapeach, coffee is found everywhere in Asia, and not only in bars that cater to the need of expats. Yak milk is not found everywhere, except in Tibet and a few neighbouring countries. There is thus no point in making a comparison between the two. Do you believe that Asian drink Yak milk and that is a standard beverage here ? Do you think we find yak milk on display on the shelves of local supermarkets in Hong Kong and Singapore ? Do you believe I go to work on a rickshaw ? That reminds me of that American who wanted to go to Western Europe and ask me if they are dishwashers and washing-machines in Europe. Great demonstration of extreme parochialism !

The good thing about coffee, is that in many Asia countries, the spelling differs a bit (e.g. Kofee), but the pronunciation is the same. Even in local restaurants in Laos, Burma,  Brunei, waiters understand coffee.

To Dave who want to struggle, you would not be able to struggle for ten years, if you were staying in Asia for that long, like many do. Struggling is fun for a few weeks, but on the long term, it is exhausting. And what if you need more help ? (like in a car accident, and car accidents do happen).

However, I agree that most people will do their best to help you even if they don't know any English. Taxi drivers in Shanghai and Beijing may know the word airport, but try taxi drivers in Ningbo or Chengdu. This is a different story.

[abu_fletcher]

To Dave who want to struggle, you would not be able to struggle for ten years, if you were staying in Asia for that long, like many do. Struggling is fun for a few weeks, but on the long term, it is exhausting. And what if you need more help ? (like in a car accident, and car accidents do happen).

I've lived outside of my home country and home culture for over 25 years now (Germany, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Mexico, and Japan for the last 10 years and traveled to 40+ other countries, including China and Tibet for 6 weeks back in 1986).  I'm certain that part of what makes me stay "out in the cold" is the constant challenge of day to day living that renders even mundane activities (like going to the dentist) into an adventure.  Is it exhausting?  Sometimes.

Like a lot of long-term sojourers I've figured out ways to minimize the hassles but I'm not sure I'd want them to go away completely.  And dealing with a non-English speaking cabbie is the least of my worries.
 

[coreano]

Getting back to the original topic, Yonsei is one of the top three universities in Korea. You would be teaching the top crop of Korean students, which sounds great but has the big drawback that many of them know that as long as they get a degree they will get a good position in the government or a big Korean company. As you can imagine, these makes some of those students less than prepared to work hard.

In addition, grade inflation is a fact of life at Korean institutions. You will have to pass almost everyone and give lots of As and Bs, whether you think this is deserved or not. If you do play this game, expect your contract not to be renewed.

But enough for the negatives. The Korean Government has a programme to get universities to teach half of the courses in certain degrees in English  by the year 2010. This means that there are increasing openings for English-speaking lecturers, and even though your contract will probably not be renewed, you will have no problem staying in Korea if you happen to like it here.

Another good thing is that the teaching load will not be too heavy, so you will have plenty of time to conduct research. And you will most probably be paid by your department for every article that you publish.

Also, most of your colleagues will have PhDs from American universities, so you will have no communication barriers with them. However, I would advise you learn some basic Korean if you want to talk to the administrative staff, which will normally be too scared to use their English even though they have a better command than they think. Obviously, knowing Korean will also allow you to better enjoy the country, even though you can get by with English in Seoul.

Any other questions, do not hesitate to ask.

[bhavani]

Hello, and thank you everybody for your feedback and all the varied information. I have sent off my application package to YU in the meantime and do not expect to hear back from them anytime soon (if ever).

As you can imagine, these makes some of those students less than prepared to work hard.

Sure.

If you do play this game, expect your contract not to be renewed.

Did you mean "do" or "don't" here?

This means that there are increasing openings for English-speaking lecturers, and even though your contract will probably not be renewed,

Do you have any information re the TT scene there? What's the issue with contract renewals?

I would advise you learn some basic Korean

My background is in Chinese and Japanese, so I have the Chinese characters (well, of course not ALL of them) and the Japanese grammar/vocabulary which I understand is similar to Korean. So I would definitely need a few language courses and also learn Hangul but wouldn't expect this to be a major burden.

Do you know anything about the quality and accessability of libraries and archives?

Thank you,
bhavani