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[bonhomme_richard]

First off, let me say that I've been reading through a lot of these threads and have found them to be invaluable. I'm trying not to be one of the ones who sleepwalk into graduate study without knowing all relevant implications.

Now for my questions (feel free to address any of them):
1) Can anyone suggest good terminal M.A. programs in English? (They seem to be few and far between.) Additionally, is the cause of this paucity of M.A. programs that they are simply not wise "investments" for university departments?
2) Though most programs advertise consideration only of PhD candidates, is it common practice for grad students to be able to leave a doctoral program, degree in hand, after completing the M.A. requirements?
3) Are there any graduate English programs extant in which the work of grad students is not necessarily directed towards "the profession"? I'm looking for something less pre-professionalized, if that makes some sense.

To give some context, you can probably tell from my questions that I do not have my sights set on the tenure track. I recently graduated undergrad. I want another year or two of intensive English study, I'd like to learn how to write a long paper, etc, and then be on my merry way.

Thanks sincerely for any help you can offer.

[zharkov]

I'm not in English, but I know a couple of BC (Boston College) MAs in English who have great things to say about the program.  They do admin work, with some teaching, at two different colleges.

[mr_55]

There are lots of MA programs in English that aren't intended to feed directly to the PhD. In fact, there are even some at (respectable) schools that don't even have PhD programs in English (but have PhD programs in writing/rhetoric and the like).

I am not in English, but some of my undergrad friends went on to complete English MA's. They have landed full time jobs: part writing center administration, part developmental writing instruction.

Just search out some unis and take a look at what is out there. I could give names of programs, but my thoughts might be biased (and we're not talking about the best area of the country, regardless of education).

I don't know how interdisciplinary you are (or wish to be), but there are lots of interdisciplinary degrees that could probably serve the purpose you want, as well.

[sinenomine]

Take a look at Indiana University -- when I was there as an M.A. student, they had a couple different tracks, one more class-based and one more research-based.

[bonhomme_richard]

Thanks for the suggestions. It also seems that U. Illinois Urbana-Champaign has a respected program that is "purposefully non-cutthroat," and that provides funding for its MA students whether or not they plan to continue to the PhD. Any thoughts on UIUC?

[gekko]

None specifically on UIUC although you should not attend ANY graduate program in the humanities without funding regardless of the degree level you hope to receive. My recommendation would be to avoid this path entirely. You want to spend to years to "learn how to write a long paper?" Have you calculated the opportnity cost of doing this? What are your career aspirations if not academic? Contrary to the advice given elsewhere I'd say not to attend at all. You sound as if you're on a very short path to spending a sizable amount for no particular reason.

Many gradate programs offer the ability to either cross register or write within the discipline one studies. You may be able to pursue your interests elsewhere within a more lucrative course of study depending on where your interests lie. The M.A. in English is about as worthless as the paper it's printed on unless you wish to either enter a Ph.D. program (equally worthless) or get a pay increase as a public school English teacher. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

Trust me on this one unless you get a lucrative fellowship somewhere, and even then only if no other options: You are considering what will likely be a costly and unproductive venture. Find something else to do or decide what that is and then decide if graduate work is appropriate in that area.

[marzipants]

While I would disagree with gekko's extremely limited notion of "worth," it is important to define your goals (intellectual, personal, professional) before finding a good program to match. MA programs are huge moneymakers for most schools, and thus many are impersonal and not terribly rigorous.  Funding is crucial.  Students do leave PhD programs after attaining only an MA, but usually not as part of their original plan.  It's also much, much harder to get into a PhD program.

Some MA schools to look at: Stanford, Tulane, Georgetown, Maryland

[pink_]

Now for my questions (feel free to address any of them):
1) Can anyone suggest good terminal M.A. programs in English? (They seem to be few and far between.) Additionally, is the cause of this paucity of M.A. programs that they are simply not wise "investments" for university departments?

They aren't good investments for the students--there is little that you can do with an MA in English save teach at some private schools.  It's a great investment for the school as they can charge you tuition and not wrry about placing you on the academic job market. 

2) Though most programs advertise consideration only of PhD candidates, is it common practice for grad students to be able to leave a doctoral program, degree in hand, after completing the M.A. requirements?

It happens, but it isn't typical.  Most programs that I know do a pretty good job of weeding out those who don't pplan on finishing in the application tage.  Of course, people change their minds ometimes, but grad school admissions are in part designed to seek out candidates who will succeed not only in the seminar but also in the profession.

3) Are there any graduate English programs extant in which the work of grad students is not necessarily directed towards "the profession"? I'm looking for something less pre-professionalized, if that makes some sense.

Not really, at least not that I know of . . .  most terminal MA programs are just the front end of ph.d. requirements, where the student takes an MA exam instead of comps and stops.  Some schools offer a masters in liberal arts (MLA or MLS) which might be more along the lines of what you are looking for. . .  I don't know a lot about these, but one of the schools that I was interviewing with offered this kind of degree.  It might be worth looking into.  Sounds like many of them are offered on a part-time basis and would get you back in the classroom for a bit longer.

[bonhomme_richard]

Of course I am hoping to do more in an MA program than learn how to write a long paper . . . Is it really true that studying more English under the guidance of an academic program and its faculty is worthless unless intended as a step toward a teaching/ scholarship career? Should I box up the books and articles that I thought meant something and begin studying for the LSAT? Thanks undergrad, for your now evidently cheap thrills and delusions of educational worth. I'm sorry - and I've no doubt gekko's advice is right on - but it's all very disappointing. End rant. Sorry.

[pink_]

Um, not sure where that came from, but no, an MA in English literature isn't particularly useful.  I say this as someone who went to grad school in the first place only wanting an MA in English literature.  Out of 22 in my entering class, everyone else planned to go on to a ph.d. either there or elsewhere.  Of those same 22, all but 5 people bailed with the MA.  I'm one of the 5 who went on to the ph.d.

I'm not bagging on you desire to get an MA--in fact, i understand it well.  However, you should be aware before investing time and/or money in one of these programs, that it is not likely to advance your professional career AT ALL.  Do my colleagues regret those two years in the MA?  Most of them don't, but only those who went on to teach at the secondary level (and usually private school) could claim any pragmatic use for their degree.

Does this mean that pursuing an MA is "worthless" or a "waste of time"?  Depends on your goals and your values.  I didn't think so, but then again, I continued on in academe.

[mr_55]

My goal was "an MMus, and only an MMus." I was confident I was going to go out there and revamp the methods of teaching music theory at every podunk-region community college I could find. Never got that far. I never got out of a music appreciation classroom! Thankfully I had full funding, but an MA/MMus/whatever in an "interest field" isn't going to do too much. Now I'm looking a PhD in an "interest major."

Ah, yes, the humanity(ies).

[gekko]

I'm not trying to be a downer or belittle the field of English. I'm just stating what should be a fairly obvious fact that the study of English has no monetary value. As the previous posters have stated, your purpose in an M.A. program will be to fund the studies of other students in the Ph.D. program or whatever other area that some administrator decides.

I assume that if you are even considering this course that you either 1) haven't considered the monetary implications of your actions, 2) believe incorrectly that the course of study will be valued by potential employers or 3) are sufficiently secure financially so that such concerns are not needed. The latter assumption is the ONLY one that should lead to a disregard of my statements.

If this is the case and you really have a desire to blow several thousand dollars a year fattening the pockets of a university that puts you in baby level courses to fund their other areas, try the University of Chicago terminal M.A. humanities program. They admit anyone and let you focus on whatever you want while "hanging out" for two years taking courses. This is the default offer for those not admitted to any Ph.D. program there so as mentioned before the school can collect a check while doing nothing for you. (Not to single out Chicago; just happen to be aware of them based on a previous forum topic.)

And no, you don't need to take the LSAT either. There are many things you can do that in no way involve attending an academic program. Go find something you wish to do and then attend a graduate program if appropriate for that field or to transition to a new field of interest. Don't go for lack of other options or to "have something to do."

Academia in general (especially this forum) is filled with Peter Pans who are going to solve ANY problem or life situation with some academic degree option. Every so often someone will write "I just finished my Ph.D. at 35 and am not sure I want to pursue this field; what should I do?" Invariably responses of "Why not try law school?" or "How about an MBA?" occur.  What's the logic here? Someone screws around half their life studying something they're now indifferent to and then the solution is to repeat the same action again? This is absolutely insane regarding not only monetary cost but life cost. A degree is not a way to stop the meter while walking in a circle of indecision.

If you really have to take two years to figure out what you're after (you at least know it isn't teaching English) then try a new field or travel to an interesting area you may wish to work in.

[mr_55]

RE: The U of C liberal studies/humanities MA (or whatever they call it). I received an offer to the program after rejection from the PhD musicology program. I found it entertaining just how blatantly obvious the "cash cow" goal of the program is on the website. Seems to be how/why a lot of school create (and even advertise) their MA programs.

I have friend who works in the library system at Dartmouth, and they too have one of these "hang out" humanities MA programs.

P.S. Another thing to tear hair out over. The four-year school at which I last worked (in a seldom-teaching role... I was the king of the online registration system) has two brand new Capella PhD candidates on the faculty. The crap part is that the degrees (or "near degrees") are touted in every press release. Ah well, this is the school whose academic dean is ABD at a distance learning institution. In "leadership studies." No intentions of ever finishing the distance learning PhD essay either.

Maybe have a bit lighter of a pocketbook will be okay. Although I won't have the smiles I get from dealing will of the egotistical "call me Dr." people. It's funny that the Capella PhDs are the most anal about it, while all of Ivy League faculty/co-worker friends are fine with first names. Ah well. Tis life. Not a thread hijack, I promise.

The U of C mention got me off on a tangent!

[bonhomme_richard]

I'm a bit confused here. I'm actually looking at programs that tout fellowships or other financial help for their MA students, and so the monetary cost of such programs is not that offensive. Are you all suggesting that this is not entirely true, that I'm missing something? I know that opportunity cost should be a big consideration, but it seems that there are programs in which the direct financial burden isn't so bad. Also, aren't there any MA's that aren't just "hang-out" operations? Sounds a bit cynical, though I don't know, you probably know better than I do.

Thanks again for all comments.

[scheherazade]

I just ran a brief search on Peterson's and found almost 500 MA programs in English listed.  Surely you can look through and find the information you need.  Examine their websites and narrow your choices based on location, financial aid offered, and the type of program.  Once you have a working list, speak to the departments to ascertain financial aid information.  What you will find is that the programs that offer financial aid do not generally offer it to all MA students.  It is competitive.  Sometimes deadlines for financial aid applications are different than program deadlines, so make sure you have the correct information.  Once you have narrowed it down some, that is likely the time to come to the fora and ask about specific programs.  Your question is just too broad to be answered, since we can't really know what it is you want.  Good luck in your search.