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[sockgumbee]

Dear Moderator(s),

I mentioned in a thread I started in Meet and Greet,
http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,40945.0.html
that the way the term sweat lodge is used here on the CHE is inappropriate because
a) the term has Native American connotations yet is the
b) antithesis to a Native American sweat lodge as the CHE lodge has
1) a party atmosphere and
2) a person gains entrance by personal achievement--1000 posts.

For Native Americans who practice sweat lodge such as myself, this is offensive, in the same way sport mascots that draw on but distort Native American traditions are offensive. In the same way the term using the term n*gg*r, when referred to a person of color, especially African-Americans is offensive.

In my original post I suggested name changes that would keep some aspects of the name, but remove the Native American association. However subsequent posts personally attacked me and/or my knowledge, rather than the veracity of my information.

All this is to say that I am appealing to the moderators to outlaw the use of the term 'sweat lodge' in the context used here, as a virtual party place/clubhouse.

I would like to continue to be part of this CHE, but I find that the continued use of sweat lodge for a party house, makes coming here painful and demoralizing. One forumite implied that the term is used parodically, however rather than a one time joke it is now the institutionalized ridicule of a sacred Native American practice.

Please understand I am only interested in having the term changed. The virtual activities and other aspects of this lodge are not in question.

Thank you for your time.

[larryc]

Gumbee, I study and write about the intersections of native faith and missionization. I am in your corner. I even objected to the term when it was first used, but not long or forcefully enough. But asking for a banning of a term is not the way to go.

I would suggest instead that each time the term pops up in a new thread (XX is Approaching the Sweat Lodge) that you post a polite note that as an Indian you find the term objectionable and why. If you do this consistently for a few months I predict the term will go away.

[mickfed]

Racism is a mental illness. It is mental illness because it is a socially constructed system of beliefs created by advocates and inventors of hegemonic systems. It is a precursor to mental illness, among ethnic minorities, because it requires that the individual function with the academic falsification of their human record, distortion of cultural identity, and delusions of grandeur about white supremacy (Novick, 1995).

Those Europeans who blindly adore the difference of the other are as racially afflicted as those who vilify it (Fanon, 1986).

At the Lakota Summit V, an international gathering of US and Canadian Lakota, Dakota and Nakota Nations, about 500 representatives from 40 different tribes and bands of the Lakota unanimously passed a "Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality." The following declaration was unanimously passed on June 10, 1993
________________________________________
Declaration of War

WHEREAS   we are the conveners of an ongoing series of comprehensive forums on the abuse and exploitation of Lakota spirituality; and

WHEREAS   we represent the recognized traditional spiritual leaders, traditional elders, and grassroots advocates of the Lakota people; and

WHEREAS   for too long we have suffered the unspeakable indignity of having our most precious Lakota ceremonies and spiritual practices desecrated, mocked and abused by non-Indian "wannabes," hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers and self-styled "New Age shamans" and their followers; and

WHEREAS   with horror and outrage we see this disgraceful expropriation of our sacred Lakota traditions has reached epidemic proportions in urban areas throughout the country; and

WHEREAS   our precious Sacred Pipe is being desecrated through the sale of pipestone pipes at flea markets, powwows, and "New Age" retail stores; and

WHEREAS   pseudo-religious corporations have been formed to charge people money for admission into phony "sweatlodges" and "vision quest" programs; and

WHEREAS   sacrilegious "sundances" for non-Indians are being conducted by charlatans and cult leaders who promote abominable and obscene imitations of our sacred Lakota sundance rites; and

WHEREAS   non-Indians have organized themselves into imitation "tribes," assigning themselves make-believe "Indian names" to facilitate their wholesale expropriation and commercialization of our Lakota traditions; and

WHEREAS   academic disciplines have sprung up at colleges and universities institutionalizing the sacrilegious imitation of our spiritual practices by students and instructors under the guise of educational programs in "shaminism;" and

WHEREAS   non-Indian charlatans and "wannabes" are selling books that promote the systematic colonization of our Lakota spirituality; and
WHEREAS   the television and film industry continues to saturate the entertainment media with vulgar, sensationalist and grossly distorted representations of Lakota spirituality and culture which reinforce the public's negative stereotyping of Indian people and which gravely impair the self-esteem of our children; and

WHEREAS   individuals and groups involved in "the New Age Movement," in "the men's movement," in "neo-paganism" cults and in "shamanism" workshops all have exploited the spiritual traditions of our Lakota people by imitating our ceremonial ways and by mixing such imitation rituals with non-Indian occult practices in an offensive and harmful pseudo-religious hodgepodge; and

WHEREAS   the absurd public posturing of this scandalous assortment of psuedo-Indian charlatans, "wannabes," commercial profiteers, cultists and "New Age shamans" comprises a momentous obstacle in the struggle of traditional Lakota people for an adequate public appraisal of the legitimate political, legal and spiritual needs of real Lakota people; and

WHEREAS   this exponential exploitation of our Lakota spiritual traditions requires that we take immediate action to defend our most precious Lakota spirituality from further contamination, desecration and abuse;

THEREFORE WE RESOLVE AS FOLLOWS:

1. We hereby and henceforth declare war against all persons who persist in exploiting, abusing and misrepresenting the sacred traditions and spiritual practices of our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.

2. We call upon all our Lakota, Dakota and Nakota brothers and sisters from reservations, reserves, and traditional communities in the United States and Canada to actively and vocally oppose this alarming take-over and systematic destruction of our sacred traditions.

3. We urge our people to coordinate with their tribal members living in urban areas to identify instances in which our sacred traditions are being abused, and then to resist this abuse, utilizing whatever specific tactics are necessary and sufficient --for example demonstrations, boycotts, press conferences, and acts of direct intervention.

4. We especially urge all our Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota people to take action to prevent our own people from contributing to and enabling the abuse of our sacred ceremonies and spiritual practices by outsiders; for, as we all know, there are certain ones among our own people who are prostituting our spiritual ways for their own selfish gain, with no regard for the spiritual well-being of the people as a whole.

5. We assert a posture of zero-tolerance for any "white man's shaman" who rises from within our own communities to "authorize" the expropriation of our ceremonial ways by non-Indians; all such "plastic medicine men" are enemies of the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people.

6. We urge traditional people, tribal leaders, and governing councils of all other Indian nations, to join us in calling for an immediate end to this rampant exploitation of our respective American Indian sacred traditions by issuing statements denouncing such abuse; for it is not the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota people alone whose spiritual practices are being systematically violated by non-Indians.

7. We urge all our Indian brothers and sisters to act decisively and boldly in our present campaign to end the destruction of our sacred traditions, keeping in mind our highest duty as Indian people: to preserve the purity of our precious traditions for our future generations, so that our children and our children's children will survive and prosper in the sacred manner intended for each of our respective peoples by our Creator.

[namazu]

Hi Gumbee,

I missed your original post, and was unaware that the term "Sweat Lodge" had these particular connotations.  Since the term for the forum "location" itself was not obviously (to me, anyway) derived from a particular cultural tradition (as it might have been if, say, "Temazcal" or "Kiva" had been used instead of an English-language phrase) I believed it to be a relatively generic term, like bath-house or steam-room.  Now I will go read up on Sweat Lodges in the traditional sense.  Thanks for pointing this out.

[drsyn]

Quote:

"The sweat lodge ceremony, older than recorded history, is practiced in some form by every culture in the world.  Our ancient ancestors established the thermal bath in order to facilitate healing, purification and relaxation in their lives. "  http://www.thewildrose.net/sweat.html

I am of Finnish descent and I am completely offended that you are discounting my heritage, which has included sweat lodges since before recorded history.

[mickfed]

White people invented everything.  How offensive not to realize this.  I am sure the reference to sweatlodge in CHE is derived from the old Finish tradition.

[contemporary_]

Gumbee and Dr Syn both make good points.  Thank you mickfed for the excellent document.  I would like to point out that the term shamanism is tied to practices observed on the steppes of Central Asia (see Mircea Eliade for early work on in the field) and generalized to a number of cultures.  Similarly, Southwestern tribes can object to the making of sand paintings by Tibetan Buddhists, but they do not have any proprietary claim to the practice. 

I agree that the use of the term "Sweat Lodge" seems to co-opt Native American traditions and is in bad taste.  I would suggest that the term "Sweat Lodge" is insensitive and that sweaty, naked forumites should confine themselves to a sauna.

[dyst_uk]

My first thoughts about the 'Sweat lodge' title revolved around Siberia etc. (possibly due to my eurocentric world view).

Having looked into a small part of the history, sweat lodges have been found at Ceann nan Clachan (Scotland) and Drombeg (Ireland), and are said to date from between 1000 BC to 400 BC.

[namazu]

My own mental image was of a kind of hammam, with a steam room, and a cool-water bathing area, and a cushy sitting area, similar to the one I visited in Wadi Musa (near Petra, Jordan). 

I figured that the barbecuing took place outside. 

Would "Lodge" serve as a less-offensive term that would still preserve some of the familiarity of the old term?

[drsyn]

My own mental image was of a kind of hammam, with a steam room, and a cool-water bathing area, and a cushy sitting area, similar to the one I visited in Wadi Musa (near Petra, Jordan). 

I figured that the barbecuing took place outside. 

Would "Lodge" serve as a less-offensive term that would still preserve some of the familiarity of the old term?

Well, through interthreaduality, the women's side could be called the 'Glow' Lodge, but then that would leave us with the men's side being called.......Help me out here CCAllen!

[voxprincipalis]

I must say that I agree that sweatlodges are not exclusively a Native American custom.

That being said, I also think (as I have posted elsewhere) that the current incarnation of the original lodge idea is drastically different from the original concept. I am aware that gumbee thinks that even the original concept was not factually true to the Native American tradition, but I would reiterate that Native Americans do not exclusively "own" the sweatlodge concept.

However, I sense that the moderators will be loath to intervene on this issue, not because they may or may not have views on the subject but because it represents a level of regulation of speech that I think they are unwilling to enter into. My sense is that they are more likely to let forumites duke it out among themselves.

That's just my opinion, of course. I think the whole idea of the Sweatlodge is going the way of the dodo anyway.

VP

[prytania3]

I must say that I agree that sweatlodges are not exclusively a Native American custom.

That being said, I also think (as I have posted elsewhere) that the current incarnation of the original lodge idea is drastically different from the original concept. I am aware that gumbee thinks that even the original concept was not factually true to the Native American tradition, but I would reiterate that Native Americans do not exclusively "own" the sweatlodge concept.

However, I sense that the moderators will be loath to intervene on this issue, not because they may or may not have views on the subject but because it represents a level of regulation of speech that I think they are unwilling to enter into. My sense is that they are more likely to let forumites duke it out among themselves.

That's just my opinion, of course. I think the whole idea of the Sweatlodge is going the way of the dodo anyway.

VP

I think you might be right about the way of the dodo, but I feel really bad if someone approaches 1k posts and gets no recognition. I don't want anyone to feel left out. As you know, I have pretty much retired as the welcome wagon, but on occasion, I'll still make a welcome thread.

[dyst_uk]

The thing is that, as on any fora where people from different backgrounds come together, some phrases will be 'offensive'/carry different meanings.

An example of this would be when a certain US wheelchair company decided to release a new wheelchair named 'Spazz' to the UK market (highly offensive over here, at least to disabled people).

The same goes for a lot of US disability phrases (e.g. mental retardation, handicapped or the use of 'learning disabilities' to refer to people with dyslexia).

I wouldn't complain about those words (unless someone made an ad hominem attack using them), as this is a world-wide board.

[drsyn]

The thing is that, as on any fora where people from different backgrounds come together, some phrases will be 'offensive'/carry different meanings.

An example of this would be when a certain US wheelchair company decided to release a new wheelchair named 'Spazz' to the UK market (highly offensive over here, at least to disabled people).

The same goes for a lot of US disability phrases (e.g. mental retardation, handicapped or the use of 'learning disabilities' to refer to people with dyslexia).

I wouldn't complain about those words (unless someone made an ad hominem attack using them), as this is a world-wide board.

Dyst,

I think that Gumbee would have the same objection no matter what part of the globe people used the term sweat lodge.

[contemporary_]

Disambiguations of the term Sweat Lodge are specific to ceremonial Native American culture and the worldwide practice of sweat bathing.  The fact that this is an English term doesn't really matter (to me). 

An interesting thread none the less.

Another, slightly more detailed reference.
http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/sweat.htm