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Author Topic: The Right to Romance  (Read 38754 times)
jjedwar
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« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2007, 12:13:46 PM »

Quote
jjedwar, I think it's extremely ironic that you are making the above accusations about lack of civil discourse, etc.

Touche.  I got dragged in to the negativity. 
What do they say about arguing with fools...?

But I really hope these folks aren't teaching courses in humility!
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jjedwar
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« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2007, 12:17:00 PM »

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This is the second time you've called me a troll.  So who, exactly, is exhibiting a lack of civil discourse?  I have not attacked you at all (unless you regard my belief that you must be young as an attack?  Interesting.), yet you continually lob what you intend as personal insults my way.

Also, if you read my posts throughout this thread, you'll see (as I've already pointed out to you) that I have limited most of my comments to Abramson's Ninth Amendment claim; I've advocated neither for nor against non-fraternalization policies.  My few comments on the policies themselves were mere observations concerning their genesis, intent, and apparent effect.  Any bitterness you've read into my posts are figments of your imagination; I have nothing to be bitter about.

I have, however, come to think acrimone was right:

Quote from: acrimone on Yesterday at 05:09:53 PM
Why do you bother?  Some fights aren't worth having.


Indeed Whiny the Elder.

Let it go.
It's just sad now.

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infopri
I guess I'm now a VERY
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When all else fails, let us agree to disagree.


« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2007, 12:19:46 PM »

Quote
This is the second time you've called me a troll.  So who, exactly, is exhibiting a lack of civil discourse?  I have not attacked you at all (unless you regard my belief that you must be young as an attack?  Interesting.), yet you continually lob what you intend as personal insults my way.

Indeed Whiny the Elder.

As I said.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2007, 12:20:19 PM by infopri » Logged

Your experience is not universal. Words to live by.

MYOB.  Y enseņen bien a sus hijos.
jjedwar
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« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2007, 12:36:04 PM »

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Indeed Whiny the Elder.

As I said.


Well done!  Ya got the last word...
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jezebel
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« Reply #169 on: September 20, 2007, 01:20:51 PM »

My college roommate asked her TA if she could skip an exam and do "something" for him instead, and after he said no, she filed a complaint and got him in a lot of trouble. She knew perfectly well what she was doing.

It is just such situations (among others) that non-fraternalization policies are intended to avoid.  They are in place to protect faculty as much as students.  (You didn't say what the substance of her complaint was, but I assume she accused the TA of sexual harassment?)  As much as some profs come on to students, so do some students come on to their profs.  Non-fraternalization policies officially put prof/student relationships off the table.

I see your point, but the catch in this situation is that the faculty member said no, presumably out of personal ethics, so a non-fraternization policy wouldn't have changed anything. He'd have still said no, and he'd still have faced a complaint because she'd have been angry.

This is maybe a little off topic, but I was shocked by how the complaint was investigated. I was called in, but I wasn't asked to make a sworn statement or anything. Were I not an honest person, I could have made up all sorts of stories. Even my roommate wasn't under oath, so I know she lied, which supported her whole agenda to punish the professor for saying no.

The questions the investigator asked were crazy, too. Lots of "Your roommate was really young and inexperienced, right?" and "You could see it in his eyes, right?" Leading, suggestive, awful questions that I felt were designed to find every way possible to support my roommate's story, rather than getting to the truth.

You can see probably why my views have formed like they have. All that professor did was make a good ethical decision, and his reward was an eight-month interrogation into every aspect of his life, with whatever stresses that brings, etc.

I'm sure there are some sleazy old men out there, just like the stereotypes suggest, but there are lots of women like my roommate out there, too, who take advantage of the paternalism and know full well what they're doing.

I believe so strongly that the best policy is no policy. Let adults be adults. If someone crosses the line, then there's always a sexual harassment complaint process, but I sure recommend the outside process (i.e. hire a lawyer and file a complaint) rather than the ridiculous institutional process, which is at best a kangaroo court.

So I want recourse through the legal system for people who have genuinely been wronged, but I don't want campus policies controlling adults' off-campus interactions.

Ash
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daniel_von_flanagan
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Works all day. Posts all night. Needs sleep.


« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2007, 02:56:24 PM »

But I do know a lot of people at a lot of universities, including my own.  And they were a lot more sexually active with their students 30 years ago than they are now.

Well, it is amazing what 30 years can do to one's libido...

Seriously, I haven't noticed much change in the level of activity over the decades.  Now, it could just be that I've moved from less randy to more randy universities, though I doubt it: my first job post-PhD was at a school with a national reputation for faculty orgies.  However, I'm more inclined to believe that the level of such activity was never quite as high as popularly portrayed, and that stories do not spread as rapidly now as they did then (since that particular flavor of gossip is not fun the way it used to be.) - DvF



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qrypt
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« Reply #171 on: September 21, 2007, 10:47:40 AM »

my first job post-PhD was at a school with a national reputation for faculty orgies. 

Okay, you have got to name that one - and if you feel you can't, then perhaps someone else knows what he is referring to? 
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"I'm tired of being your love slave!"

"Does that mean I'm not going to get my coffee?"
csguy
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Computer Science faculty


« Reply #172 on: September 21, 2007, 01:48:28 PM »

my first job post-PhD was at a school with a national reputation for faculty orgies. 

Okay, you have got to name that one - and if you feel you can't, then perhaps someone else knows what he is referring to? 
Or perhaps just a top 10 list of schools for horndog faculty.
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