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[libbilou]

Timber,

Don't keep sitting in front of the computer...get out and move around.  Try substitute teaching...it pays and you can keep up your teaching skills.  I don't know what your major was but focus on publishing your dissertation.   Write articles and attend conferences in your field...good way to network.  Waiting tables?  Unless you are absolutely desperate and able to maintain your composure when your doing other work you don't need to do. It is hard and long to get a job but continue to put out the cv's and cover letters and check in with the people you have asked for recommendations from time to time. 

[opsman]

I'm not sure if this is the proper discussion topic for this question, but none of the other topics I scanned seemed to fit better.

As someone who had a successful 20+ year career in private industry before returning to school to earn a Ph.D., I'd be curious to know the differences between job searches within academia and those outside. In my prior career I had the opportunity to sit on both sides of the table during the job search/interview process, so that as a job-seeker it was easier for me to present myself successfully to potential employers - I did my homework and demonstrated the skills and behaviors that I would have looked for in a candidate for an executive position.

However, most of the feedback I get from other students and recently-hired assistant professors is that an academic search is "totally" different than looking for a job in private industry. Other than the obvious "if you get a tenure-track position they may have to live with you for a long time" comment, what are the differences? I find it hard to believe that an academic search committee wouldn't be attracted to a candidate with demonstrated potential and who has performed the due diligence necessary to learn whether that institution is a good fit for their research/teaching/lifestyle interests. What am I missing?

[dr_dre]

So, I looked at the wiki in my field and this year's page has been viewed 9,940 times already. Ugh. That hobby angle is sounding better every day. (I am baking some sweet potatoes and thinking this would be a good year to perfect my pie crust. I was getting close a couple of years ago, when I learned from Eula Mae's cookbook to chill all the ingredients before embarking.) And in the midst of this midterm grading, even my languishing research is sounding mighty fun again.

Best of luck, patience, and happiness to everyone this year.

Mjm_uh, have you looked at The Academic Job Search Handbook yet? You might find it helpful. http://books.google.com/books?id=8JG5zJYz7CUC&dq=academic+job+search+handbook&psp=1

[libbilou]

I'm not sure if this is the proper discussion topic for this question, but none of the other topics I scanned seemed to fit better.

As someone who had a successful 20+ year career in private industry before returning to school to earn a Ph.D., I'd be curious to know the differences between job searches within academia and those outside. In my prior career I had the opportunity to sit on both sides of the table during the job search/interview process, so that as a job-seeker it was easier for me to present myself successfully to potential employers - I did my homework and demonstrated the skills and behaviors that I would have looked for in a candidate for an executive position.

However, most of the feedback I get from other students and recently-hired assistant professors is that an academic search is "totally" different than looking for a job in private industry. Other than the obvious "if you get a tenure-track position they may have to live with you for a long time" comment, what are the differences? I find it hard to believe that an academic search committee wouldn't be attracted to a candidate with demonstrated potential and who has performed the due diligence necessary to learn whether that institution is a good fit for their research/teaching/lifestyle interests. What am I missing?

I too have been on both sides of the hiring table.  However, in academia there is a "dysfunctional twist" that happens when a PhD is involved.  No matter how experienced, confident, or demonstrated you are in your area someone on the SC will not think you have what it takes to have a tt position.

[heronhouse]

mjm, this probably is a post for another thread.  But I'm tired, so here goes my thoughts.  I've been on the job market in academia and in the business world.  Overall, I don't think they are radically different.  Here are a few differences that I have noticed:
(1) The job market in my field it has a distinct seasonal cycle.  Obviously, in most corporate positions, you can decide to look for a job whenever one is available.
(2) The academic job search is drawn out over several months, and you generally can't start until the beginning of the semester (which can often lead to frustrations about how to support one's self over the summer).  Now that I've left the corporate world, I'm always shocked when I talk to folks who apply for a job and then get hired within a matter of weeks!  It seems so foreign to me now. 
(3) There tends to be not as much explicit marketing of oneself in academia.  This varies from discipline to discipline, but when I hired in the corporate world, I read lots of cover letters that trumpeted the candidate's greatness.  The academic job letter tends to be much more reserved.  Successes are pointed out, but often in delicate language so that one doesn't sound like a complete jerk.
(4) CVs and cover letters are much longer than their corollaries in the business world.

[epistephiliac]

I think that's a fair list, Heronhouse. I would also add:

(5) There is a certain ritualistic dimension to the academic job search that is (usually) missing in industry. The process take place using a combination of reviews of application materials, phone interviews, conference interviews, campus visits (which include various combinations of meetings, job talk, teaching demonstration). Each discipline, and each institution, has developed its own formula for hiring new faculty, usually over the course of many years. You have to let the process take its course: any effort to speed things up, skip steps, or exercise influence outside the agreed boundaries is not only unlikely to be successful, it may actually damage your candidacy.

It can all seem very arcane to outsiders, and even to academics from different disciplines or types of institutions. 

[yojimbo1]

Depressing.
Honestly. The whole point of remaining in academia and working so hard at achieving these higher degrees was to give myself more choices, and more opportunities. Having finished I now see that that was entirely a naive outlook. These past 9 months of applying for jobs and being largely ignored have served to reinforce the "not fabulous self" and instead have created a cynic.

Are we supposed to pretend otherwise? Perform some kind of ridiculous stage play in hopes that we'll out perform some other actor/job seeker?

the answer is yes... And I'm suffering... it's a hard place to be.
Exercise, music, friends, advice (good and bad), forums, vitamins  -- etc etc...
10/an hour jobs to keep the wolves at bay, and somehow keep the loan banks off my back.

I was hoping to be able to go see a dentist by now! :)

[libbilou]

Depressing.
Honestly. The whole point of remaining in academia and working so hard at achieving these higher degrees was to give myself more choices, and more opportunities. Having finished I now see that that was entirely a naive outlook. These past 9 months of applying for jobs and being largely ignored have served to reinforce the "not fabulous self" and instead have created a cynic.

Are we supposed to pretend otherwise? Perform some kind of ridiculous stage play in hopes that we'll out perform some other actor/job seeker?

the answer is yes... And I'm suffering... it's a hard place to be.
Exercise, music, friends, advice (good and bad), forums, vitamins  -- etc etc...
10/an hour jobs to keep the wolves at bay, and somehow keep the loan banks off my back.

I was hoping to be able to go see a dentist by now! :)

I feel the same way...that is why I considered washing dishes as a new career!

[minidonut]

Depressing.
Honestly. The whole point of remaining in academia and working so hard at achieving these higher degrees was to give myself more choices, and more opportunities. Having finished I now see that that was entirely a naive outlook. These past 9 months of applying for jobs and being largely ignored have served to reinforce the "not fabulous self" and instead have created a cynic.

Are we supposed to pretend otherwise? Perform some kind of ridiculous stage play in hopes that we'll out perform some other actor/job seeker?

the answer is yes... And I'm suffering... it's a hard place to be.
Exercise, music, friends, advice (good and bad), forums, vitamins  -- etc etc...
10/an hour jobs to keep the wolves at bay, and somehow keep the loan banks off my back.

I was hoping to be able to go see a dentist by now! :)

OK, so it's not just me.  Someone else is in the same boat.  It's entirely depressing, and totally rips apart your self-esteem.  Typing letters and making photocopies for someone else BEFORE I had a PhD was bearable on some level; doing the same thing (for less money, and 10 years older) AFTER I got my PhD takes its toll.

Just think - if all of us bright peeples could get together and start a business.

[wild_rose]

I was hoping to be able to go see a dentist by now! :)

I got my Ph.D. in May.

You are certainly not alone. I'm also in serious need of an eye exam, and a more serious issue I don't even want to see a doctor about until I have insurance (potentially very, very expensive treatment). I'm still paying off my ER bills from September.

And I've lost another job so now my income is reduced to a stipend for teaching a single class - not even half the amount I need to live on.

I'm basically staying too busy to think about it, but after next Friday, I'll have nothing but time.

If I don't hear good news next week from my best job prospect, it will be very hard not to sink into depression.

Typing letters and making photocopies for someone else BEFORE I had a PhD was bearable on some level; doing the same thing (for less money, and 10 years older) AFTER I got my PhD takes its toll.

It would really suck to have to go back to the retail job I quit in August. I really don't know what I'll do. I just don't.

[libbilou]

I was hoping to be able to go see a dentist by now! :)

I got my Ph.D. in May.

You are certainly not alone. I'm also in serious need of an eye exam, and a more serious issue I don't even want to see a doctor about until I have insurance (potentially very, very expensive treatment). I'm still paying off my ER bills from September.

And I've lost another job so now my income is reduced to a stipend for teaching a single class - not even half the amount I need to live on.

I'm basically staying too busy to think about it, but after next Friday, I'll have nothing but time.

If I don't hear good news next week from my best job prospect, it will be very hard not to sink into depression.

Typing letters and making photocopies for someone else BEFORE I had a PhD was bearable on some level; doing the same thing (for less money, and 10 years older) AFTER I got my PhD takes its toll.

It would really suck to have to go back to the retail job I quit in August. I really don't know what I'll do. I just don't.

The holidays don't help matters either!

[wild_rose]

The holidays don't help matters either!

You are so right!

I haven't been home to see my family since 2004, because of money. I miss them most during the holidays.

Oh, and my holiday gift from this department (not my home department) was to find out that my position is being discontinued. The 14th is my last day here.

Well, in spite of all of this, I really have to (force myself to) remain optimistic. I mean, I can either allow myself to sink into depression or I can get off my butt and DO something.

I like the second choice better.

I'm reframing things. For example, I have nothing to do, in terms of going to work, from next Friday until the semester starts January 7. It's being reframed as the vacation (albeit unpaid) that I haven't had in years. This will be MY time to do what I need and want to do. I can prepare my syllabus and a bunch of lectures in powerpoint to ease the work load at the beginning of next semester. I can finish my painting. I can polish up that article (both of them!) and send them off to journals. I can write that grant proposal.

Oh, yeah. And I can look for a job.

[secretweapon]

Hang in there, Wild Rose!  You can do it!

[libbilou]

Why is a PhD called a terminal degree?  Because it will either kill you or have you kill somebody.  It does take a toll on you physically, spiritually, and emotionally.

[wild_rose]

Why is a PhD called a terminal degree?  Because it will either kill you or have you kill somebody.  It does take a toll on you physically, spiritually, and emotionally.

I killed myself to get it and now it's killing me.