anthroid
Proud yod dropper
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 15,781
No happy socks because nobody gets Manitoba.
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« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2007, 01:20:14 PM » |
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Well, at least the last few posts have made clear exactly what this thread is. It is a chance for a group of anonymous strangers to judge a family. Six pages of judgment. Any of our families could be the subject of this thread, and the criticism weighed would likely be no less harsh.
You bet. A family this size is a troublesome cultural phenomenon, and just as all of us are open to judgment--indeed, it happens all the time--so is this family. Given that most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality, I'd say this discussion is remarkably mild. |
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Do you hail from Planet Hello Kitty? It's like an action movie, but boring.
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kaysixteen
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« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2007, 01:20:45 PM » |
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What is perhaps the most distressing thing here is the tendency of some posters to assume that they know what the Duggars think about certain other issues, esp. 'adoption'-- what in their choice to have 17 younguns suggests that they are opposed to adoption, as one poster at least has intimated? Best refrain from speculations about them, including the loathesome suggestion that somehow their views are motivated by racism ('encroaching melanin').
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slac_vap
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« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2007, 01:33:35 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 01:34:24 PM by slac_vap »
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"...the world between reality and fantasy improv nonsense is blurred in Columbus." -David Gaus
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_touchedbyanoodle_
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« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2007, 01:37:50 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. No kidding, slac_vap. It runs so contrary to my many experiences of having to "turn over" my former high school students to their drug-addled and violence-prone mothers (not a single father for a single student of mine at that school) that I wondered what experiences Anthroid is mentally referencing. |
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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin
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anthroid
Proud yod dropper
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 15,781
No happy socks because nobody gets Manitoba.
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« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2007, 01:38:05 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. Yes, but not here. |
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Do you hail from Planet Hello Kitty? It's like an action movie, but boring.
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anthroid
Proud yod dropper
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 15,781
No happy socks because nobody gets Manitoba.
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« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2007, 01:40:11 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. No kidding, slac_vap. It runs so contrary to my many experiences of having to "turn over" my former high school students to their drug-addled and violence-prone mothers (not a single father for a single student of mine at that school) that I wondered what experiences Anthroid is mentally referencing. A number of years as a family therapist in the Chicago area working with the poor. I guess we have had different experiences with the state. And I wonder now about your judgments, noodled...criticizing the Duggars AND now criticizing single mothers who you determine to be drug addled and violent? Hmmm....not much room there for tolerance or understanding. Pretty narrow views. |
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Do you hail from Planet Hello Kitty? It's like an action movie, but boring.
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slac_vap
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« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2007, 01:41:08 PM » |
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No, not here. You're right.
But meet me at the playground, by the dumpster, right after 6th period. BE THERE OR BE SQUARE!
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"...the world between reality and fantasy improv nonsense is blurred in Columbus." -David Gaus
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_touchedbyanoodle_
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« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2007, 01:44:17 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. No kidding, slac_vap. It runs so contrary to my many experiences of having to "turn over" my former high school students to their drug-addled and violence-prone mothers (not a single father for a single student of mine at that school) that I wondered what experiences Anthroid is mentally referencing. A number of years as a family therapist in the Chicago area working with the poor. I guess we have had different experiences with the state. And I wonder now about your judgments, noodled...criticizing the Duggars AND now criticizing single mothers who you determine to be drug addled and violent? Hmmm....not much room there for tolerance or understanding. Pretty narrow views. They were drug-addled and violent! I make no apology for my wanting to help those students who had every reason not to want to go home. |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 01:45:18 PM by noodled »
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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin
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fiona
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« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2007, 01:45:29 PM » |
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I'm interested that this thread is moving (evolving? devolving?) into posters' attacking each other for having the temerity to express opinions about the Duggars' choices.
Why can't we express opinions?
Hey, this is the United States, we're articulate people, we're mostly anonymous, and we're posting our--gasp--opinions. Why is that so wrong?
But while I'll commenting on meta-opinions--i. e., opinions about opinions (and btw, doesn't that mark me as an elite snob, that I used "i. e." correctly?)-- well, moving right along:
Those who criticize Mrs. Duggar's hairstyle are really being petty. The fact that she manages to have mostly combed hair should be an achievement. I wish she'd stop having kids, though.
The Fiona, who never hesitates to give C minuses where they're merited
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The Fiona or perhaps La Fiona
Professor of Thread Killing, Fiork University
The Right Reverend Fiona, PhD, Bishop of the Fora
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anthroid
Proud yod dropper
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 15,781
No happy socks because nobody gets Manitoba.
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« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2007, 01:48:48 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. No kidding, slac_vap. It runs so contrary to my many experiences of having to "turn over" my former high school students to their drug-addled and violence-prone mothers (not a single father for a single student of mine at that school) that I wondered what experiences Anthroid is mentally referencing. A number of years as a family therapist in the Chicago area working with the poor. I guess we have had different experiences with the state. And I wonder now about your judgments, noodled...criticizing the Duggars AND now criticizing single mothers who you determine to be drug addled and violent? Hmmm....not much room there for tolerance or understanding. Pretty narrow views. They were drug-addled and violent! I make no apology for my wanting to help those students who had every reason not to want to go home. Fair enough. I worked with a number of families like this and tended to see their strengths when I could. A different example: in Illinois a few years back a single mother was incredibly harshly treated for occasionally breast-feeding her five year old son, accused of sexual abuse (for BREAST FEEDING), and her child was removed to foster care while she was forced into a year's worth of parenting classes. She had to admit to the social workers and god and everyone that she was a pervert before she could get her son back. THAT, my friends, is narrow minded developmental psychology crap that has nothing to do with what children need and everything to do with American puritanism straight from the mental health professionals. And The Fiona, is, as always, completely, thoroughly, and delightfully correct. |
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Do you hail from Planet Hello Kitty? It's like an action movie, but boring.
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slac_vap
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« Reply #100 on: August 06, 2007, 01:55:04 PM » |
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I don't think that my post constituted an attack on others for having opinions. Certainly if others feel attacked, they can let me know. I am still working to process yellowtractor's response, and so I have not yet addressed the accusation that I was being unfair. I was trying to make the point that we should pause before criticizing others' choices, and consider whether we would like to be held up to the same scrutiny.
I will not pretend that I am perfect. Certainly I am guilty of judgment myself. (In fact, I am surprised that no one, as yet, has accused me of being judgmental in accusing others of judgment.)
I have only one child, and I did not wash my hair today.
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"...the world between reality and fantasy improv nonsense is blurred in Columbus." -David Gaus
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wild_rose
Uncharacteristically optimistic
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 9,729
The thrill of modern postism!
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« Reply #101 on: August 06, 2007, 01:57:07 PM » |
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Those who criticize Mrs. Duggar's hairstyle are really being petty. The fact that she manages to have mostly combed hair should be an achievement. I wish she'd stop having kids, though.
I did say it was superficial. (I did not wash my hair today either, S_V, although it's as long as Mrs. Duggar's.) I am more interested in seeing how these kids turn out. What kind of adults will they be? How will growing up in a large, and very unusual (and public) family affect them? |
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"[M]y toast just landed jelly side up so I think that bodes well for averting world-ending disasters. I have faith in bread although the toasted aspect may mean you're going to have withstand some heat for a brief time and some aloe jelly will come in handy." --Notaprof, the Great Seer
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_touchedbyanoodle_
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« Reply #102 on: August 06, 2007, 01:57:22 PM » |
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...most poor families and many middle class ones are being constantly judged against alleged "clinically proven" standards of behavior for normality, and those families are subject to state intervention if they don't meet the mental health community's incredibly narrow standards for normality...
Oh my. What an interesting statement! I think you and I could debate this one for a while. No kidding, slac_vap. It runs so contrary to my many experiences of having to "turn over" my former high school students to their drug-addled and violence-prone mothers (not a single father for a single student of mine at that school) that I wondered what experiences Anthroid is mentally referencing. A number of years as a family therapist in the Chicago area working with the poor. I guess we have had different experiences with the state. And I wonder now about your judgments, noodled...criticizing the Duggars AND now criticizing single mothers who you determine to be drug addled and violent? Hmmm....not much room there for tolerance or understanding. Pretty narrow views. They were drug-addled and violent! I make no apology for my wanting to help those students who had every reason not to want to go home. Fair enough. I worked with a number of families like this and tended to see their strengths when I could. A different example: in Illinois a few years back a single mother was incredibly harshly treated for occasionally breast-feeding her five year old son, accused of sexual abuse (for BREAST FEEDING), and her child was removed to foster care while she was forced into a year's worth of parenting classes. She had to admit to the social workers and god and everyone that she was a pervert before she could get her son back. THAT, my friends, is narrow minded developmental psychology crap that has nothing to do with what children need and everything to do with American puritanism straight from the mental health professionals. And The Fiona, is, as always, completely, thoroughly, and delightfully correct. Anthroid, I agree. That mother was horribly abused by the "system." When I asked earlier what experiences you were mentally referencing, I was genuinely asking because I wanted to know and imagined you would have a hell of a story to tell. I didn't figure you'd accuse me of being narrow-minded because I'd had different experiences that have made me wary of the system's ability to help most children. *storms off in a huff* |
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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin
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_touchedbyanoodle_
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« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2007, 01:58:59 PM » |
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*storms back in*
Funny, I haven't washed my hair either and I have no children.
I stink, too.
*storms off again*
*slam*
*door creaks open*
*SLAM*
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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin
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wild_rose
Uncharacteristically optimistic
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 9,729
The thrill of modern postism!
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« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2007, 02:14:26 PM » |
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Where else could we discuss a topic like this among intelligent, infuriatingly (and charmingly) opinionated people? iVillage? I doubt it.
And watch Noodled storm in and out of the room.
Rock on!
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"[M]y toast just landed jelly side up so I think that bodes well for averting world-ending disasters. I have faith in bread although the toasted aspect may mean you're going to have withstand some heat for a brief time and some aloe jelly will come in handy." --Notaprof, the Great Seer
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