francie_
The Really Cheerful
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 3,815
The Voice of Reason
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 11:59:28 AM » |
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The fact that the family is free to choose this course doesn't mean it's not a stupid choice. That's the challenge of liberty, n'est-ce pas?
I believe the challenge of liberty in the Duggar case is to refrain from judging and characterizing their reproductive choices as "stupid." And tell me, why is their, the Duggars', choice "stupid" and worthy of ridicule? I mean, aren't we supposed to support all manner of "families" under the pithy slogan of "Love makes a family"? |
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Oh realfrancie, so clever!
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cropguru
Dirt Chemistry Messiah and
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 1,499
Way too young to be this jaded.
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2007, 12:02:56 PM » |
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I hope they can afford that many.
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wild_rose
Uncharacteristically optimistic
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 9,738
The thrill of modern postism!
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2007, 12:05:04 PM » |
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The uterus is not a clown car!
ROFLMAO I nominate this for the posting hall of fame. |
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"[M]y toast just landed jelly side up so I think that bodes well for averting world-ending disasters. I have faith in bread although the toasted aspect may mean you're going to have withstand some heat for a brief time and some aloe jelly will come in handy." --Notaprof, the Great Seer
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scheherazade
1/3 of the Triumvirate of Evil and the Most Delicious
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 7,105
Running feminist prostitution rings since 1998
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 12:05:32 PM » |
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I agree with realfrancie and k16. If they want to have a ton of kids, and they're both happy with this, who cares? He has a job that can support them all, they seem to be decent kids, so it's their choice.
For those who criticize about having "too many," I'd ask what is too many? Sure, 17 is a huge number, but what about 4 kids? My mom had four and was told by several people that it was a really large family. What about three? What about any? If been told off for having TWO kids and contributing to the overpopulation problem. Six? Nine? What's the cutoff?
Personally, I can't imagine WHY it's a stupid choice to have 17 kids, if the choice is mutual and they can support them. Why is it stupid?
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You historians disturb me sometimes. |
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contemporary_
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2007, 12:06:18 PM » |
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The uterus is not a clown car!
ROFLMAO I nominate this for the posting hall of fame. Get out of my head. Second the motion. |
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also fills the typical New Yorker reader with a warm feeling of bemused superiority.
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chaud
Once again, I'm a
Senior member
Posts: 560
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 12:07:04 PM » |
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But CAN they support them?
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scheherazade
1/3 of the Triumvirate of Evil and the Most Delicious
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 7,105
Running feminist prostitution rings since 1998
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2007, 12:08:26 PM » |
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Apparently so, as they have been. They aren't on welfare. The dad was a state rep at some point. They are clean and well-dressed. Why would we conclude otherwise?
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You historians disturb me sometimes. |
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autie13
Livin' large as a
Senior member
Posts: 308
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2007, 12:09:06 PM » |
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All I have to say is that she looks pretty well rested for having seventeen kids!!!! I have two and I"m about to collapse from exhaustion!!! Kudos to her!
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"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research." ~~ A. Einstein ~~
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yellowtractor
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2007, 12:09:32 PM » |
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Apparently so, as they have been. They aren't on welfare. The dad was a state rep at some point. They are clean and well-dressed. Why would we conclude otherwise?
Agreed. I have plenty of friends who seem unable to afford the one or two children they have--or, in the case of childless couples, each other. |
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i think is good for every one only the think is that we will always scares about that. |
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aandsdean
I feel affirmed that I'm truly a 6,000+ post
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 6,641
Positively impactful on stakeholder synergies
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2007, 12:39:36 PM » |
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The fact that the family is free to choose this course doesn't mean it's not a stupid choice. That's the challenge of liberty, n'est-ce pas?
I believe the challenge of liberty in the Duggar case is to refrain from judging and characterizing their reproductive choices as "stupid." And tell me, why is their, the Duggars', choice "stupid" and worthy of ridicule? I mean, aren't we supposed to support all manner of "families" under the pithy slogan of "Love makes a family"? My wife is from a family of 10 and she has well over 80 first cousins, so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with the parameters of large families. I love my in-laws and take great joy in being married into that family. Thus I'll take back stupid and replace it with "irresponsible" in an era of already greatly diminished and rapidly diminishing natural resources. Moreover, even without welfare, we ARE supporting this family as a matter of social policy through tax deductions, subsidies on their health care (my wife and I, for instance, pay the same amount of insurance premiums as the Duggars would should one of them be employed at my university), etc. Their existence is not without consequence to the other members of their society, and their "self-reliance" is mythical. I am all for their ability to choose. It's fine with me. It is, however, also my right to believe that having 17 children is reckless, irresponsible socially, and anachronistic in a way that has little charm. And finally, I am profoundly doubtful that they'd be as latitudinarian about others' familiar choices (gay couples, abortions, etc.) as I am about theirs. |
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Wearing a black armband for Lucy
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chemystery
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2007, 12:44:08 PM » |
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I think I saw one of the programs about this family. If memory serves correctly, the idea is that the older kids do a lot of the work involved with taking care of the house and the younger kids.
While I totally support the idea of having your children contribute by helping with household chores, it always irks me to see a family essentially turn their children into de facto parents for their younger siblings. You decided to have X children, you raise X children. Your older children shouldn't have to give up their childhoods to shoulder your responsibilities for you.
Disclaimer: While I think this is the family, it's entirely possible that I'm thinking of another brood.
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"Nolite te bastardes carborundorum"
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_touchedbyanoodle_
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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2007, 12:57:46 PM » |
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The fact that the family is free to choose this course doesn't mean it's not a stupid choice. That's the challenge of liberty, n'est-ce pas?
I believe the challenge of liberty in the Duggar case is to refrain from judging and characterizing their reproductive choices as "stupid." And tell me, why is their, the Duggars', choice "stupid" and worthy of ridicule? I mean, aren't we supposed to support all manner of "families" under the pithy slogan of "Love makes a family"? Contributing to overpopulation and going through 90,000 disposable diapers is stupid, imo. |
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"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." -George Carlin
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dr_dre
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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2007, 01:06:55 PM » |
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I have seen some of the programs about this family. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe they actually receive some corporate sponsorships, sort of like the famous "Quints" used to? It makes it hard to frame the family in the stereotypical "welfare" debates.
My grandmother was one of the eldest of 16 children (in Mexico). She had a thoroughly miserable childhood, which was spent raising the younger children, and, as a result, she swore never to have more than four herself.
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slac_vap
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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2007, 01:17:04 PM » |
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Congratulations to the Duggars. They seem very happy with their choice, and thus I am happy for them.
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"...the world between reality and fantasy improv nonsense is blurred in Columbus." -David Gaus
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wild_rose
Uncharacteristically optimistic
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 9,738
The thrill of modern postism!
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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2007, 01:18:25 PM » |
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While I totally support the idea of having your children contribute by helping with household chores, it always irks me to see a family essentially turn their children into de facto parents for their younger siblings.
This is the norm in some cultures, especially before missionization and colonialization. "Coming of Age in Samoa" describes this very accurately, and I saw some of it during after-school hours while I was there (in Samoa). Not that I see it as an appropriate practice in American culture. There was a time, of course, when having many kids was necessary and adaptive. As Austin Powers would say, "That train has sailed." |
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 01:19:02 PM by wild_rose »
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"[M]y toast just landed jelly side up so I think that bodes well for averting world-ending disasters. I have faith in bread although the toasted aspect may mean you're going to have withstand some heat for a brief time and some aloe jelly will come in handy." --Notaprof, the Great Seer
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