next »

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Why wouldn't any sensible person dismiss the quality of an institution that goes completely against the grain of virtually every aspect of modern Higher Education?

Why offer an opinion in such a case at all?  Someone came on the forum and apparently said they went to Deep Springs, it is not a very nice thing to immediately slam the school even if you know anything about it.  If someone came into the room and told you they were just at church, would you immediately aver that Christianity was a load of hooey and church was a waste of good land?

Especially, when their website so poorly describes their institution.

Evidently they feel little need to blow their own horn.  The web page you've already looked at gives the SAT average, the acceptance rate, and some awards won - what other stats do you want?

The school might not be very well-known generally, but it is well-known and well-respected among people who know small colleges, and is highly ranked in most college guidebooks.  I'm not saying that you should necessarily have known anything about the place, but then why say anything?  - DvF

[dogvomit]

why say anything?

Because this is a forum in which conversations are supposed to take place.  You ask questions in order to get objective answers.  I did not perceive what I said being all that attacking, and definitely less so than many of the other challenges made to statements on this forum.  However, I guarantee if the subject of Deep Springs comes up again, there will be a long thread of valuable information for all to read. 

If I had simply looked at the comments and said, "Hmm, sounds like crap to me," there would have been no discussion, my vision of what goes on there would remain unrefined.

So, now I know much more about the place and am better for it.
Others can look up this thread and learn the same things.

This forum is more than just a bunch of people ranting, it is public record where others can find information that might be vital to them.  And it is probably more believable to most people than reading information that was selected by the institution in question if you are doubtful of their statements. 

So why say anything?  Because the only dumb question is the one you did not ask.  If you don't ask hard questions, you are doomed to wallow with the rest of society who simply go with the flow and get duped many times. 

[daniel_von_flanagan]

why say anything?

Because this is a forum in which conversations are supposed to take place.  You ask questions in order to get objective answers.

Oh please.  Anyone can look back in this thread and see that you weren't asking questions, you were offering opinions. Your first post was "if find it hard to take a school of 35 students serious at any level" and before you asked any non-snarky questions you'd already posted "I'm sorry, I don't buy it...Sorry, its not worth the money and there is no way on this green earth that they provide a better education than any institution with more than three faculty."  - DvF

[csguy]

Why wouldn't any sensible person dismiss the quality of an institution that goes completely against the grain of virtually every aspect of modern Higher Education?  Especially, when their website so poorly describes their institution. 

Possibly because they are less than impressed with the quality of  graduates "modern Higher Education" produces and they believe that Deep Springs approach  is more likely to produce positive results.

I would hope that the students don't rely solely on any school's website for information.

[dogvomit]

why say anything?

Because this is a forum in which conversations are supposed to take place.  You ask questions in order to get objective answers.

Oh please.  Anyone can look back in this thread and see that you weren't asking questions, you were offering opinions. Your first post was "if find it hard to take a school of 35 students serious at any level" and before you asked any non-snarky questions you'd already posted "I'm sorry, I don't buy it...Sorry, its not worth the money and there is no way on this green earth that they provide a better education than any institution with more than three faculty."  - DvF

Anyone?  I guess you can read minds too.
Yes, that was my opinion and an unwritten request to prove your point.  Don't throw a bunch of unsupported statements.

I still find it fairly unbelievable, but less so than when I started.

[dogvomit]

Why wouldn't any sensible person dismiss the quality of an institution that goes completely against the grain of virtually every aspect of modern Higher Education?  Especially, when their website so poorly describes their institution. 

Possibly because they are less than impressed with the quality of  graduates "modern Higher Education" produces and they believe that Deep Springs approach  is more likely to produce positive results.

I would hope that the students don't rely solely on any school's website for information.

I don't know this for sure, but my gut feeling says that most undergrads make their first contact with schools online.  Very few students in my classes have not scoped out prospective schools online before asking me about them.  So, if they look at your website, and it is pretty lame, you have reduced your chances of getting them. 

Back in my Highschool teaching days students were already doing this.  I'ld be surprised if they aren't scoping out Rate My Professor, Students Review.com, and other websites in addition to the university's own website.  Still, their first look at you, outside of sports on TV is likely your website.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

So, if they look at your website, and it is pretty lame, you have reduced your chances of getting them. [...snip...]I'ld be surprised if they aren't scoping out Rate My Professor, Students Review.com, and other websites in addition to the university's own website.

So if you are a selective school trying to admit only those students who have learned to base critical decisions on reliable and accurate information, this provides another useful filter.

Anyone?

Anyone who can read this page can click the 'previous' button a couple of times and "scope it out" for themselves. - Dvf

[dogvomit]

They are doing as good with the good students as my local community college.  They ignore the bad students by not admitting them. 

Pretty easy to make gold out of gold.  Its the people who spin it out of straw that are remarkeable. 

[jonesey]

They are doing as good with the good students as my local community college.  They ignore the bad students by not admitting them. 

As a CC professor, I'd be interested in hearing how your local CC "ignores" bad students by not admitting them.  In my experience, CC's are incredibly open as far as enrollment.  Maybe you're near the only selective CC in America?

[aandsdean]

They are doing as good with the good students as my local community college.  They ignore the bad students by not admitting them. 

As a CC professor, I'd be interested in hearing how your local CC "ignores" bad students by not admitting them.  In my experience, CC's are incredibly open as far as enrollment.  Maybe you're near the only selective CC in America?

Jonesey, you misread the pronoun ref--"They" refers to Deep Springs in both sentences.

I'm very glad Deep Springs is "doing as good with good students" as the local CC, by the way.  I feel very well about it.

[yellowtractor]

They are doing as good with the good students as my local community college.  They ignore the bad students by not admitting them. 

As a CC professor, I'd be interested in hearing how your local CC "ignores" bad students by not admitting them.  In my experience, CC's are incredibly open as far as enrollment.  Maybe you're near the only selective CC in America?

Jonesey, you misread the pronoun ref--"They" refers to Deep Springs in both sentences.

I'm very glad Deep Springs is "doing as good with good students" as the local CC, by the way.  I feel very well about it.

"Do good with the good" is my motto.

[dogvomit]

They are doing as good with the good students as my local community college.  They ignore the bad students by not admitting them. 

As a CC professor, I'd be interested in hearing how your local CC "ignores" bad students by not admitting them.  In my experience, CC's are incredibly open as far as enrollment.  Maybe you're near the only selective CC in America?

Sorry, I mis-wrote that.  DS is the one that ignores bad students, not the CC! :)

[daurousseau]

Although they may give a stellar education, if find it hard to take a school of 35 students serious at any level. 

Ask Ben Barber about his experiences at Albert Schweitzer College. He took it seriously enough to return there as a tutor after going there as a student.

[calfrye]

Setting aside Deep Springs for a moment, would a better comparison be between Antioch and Oberlin, perhaps? They're both Ohio schools in small towns, and the leftist attitude at Oberlin can't be too far removed from Antioch's. That's the issue I have with Keyes' analysis. Much of what he sees at Antioch is also present at Oberlin, but whether it's "toxic" or not might be in the eye of the beholder. I suggest the comparison between two Ohio SLACs might be more useful...

[aandsdean]

Setting aside Deep Springs for a moment, would a better comparison be between Antioch and Oberlin, perhaps? They're both Ohio schools in small towns, and the leftist attitude at Oberlin can't be too far removed from Antioch's. That's the issue I have with Keyes' analysis. Much of what he sees at Antioch is also present at Oberlin, but whether it's "toxic" or not might be in the eye of the beholder. I suggest the comparison between two Ohio SLACs might be more useful...

Kenyon would perhaps be better--it's smaller and much less rich than Oberlin.  Wooster or Hiram, too.