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[drfunz]

From "Mismeasurement": "...today more than 80 percent of high-school graduates go to college within approximately eight years of graduation."

I have taught university students (undergrads, grads,professional) since 1987. Now I am at a small school where there are, oddly enough, mostly traditional aged students. From 1975 to 1987, I taught middle and high school, 7 -12. Many students, even here at my current institution should not be in college, do not want to be in college or do not need college. That said, our high schools are a shambles and often college has become the place to put the finishing touches on a student who wants to learn, but who has, unfortunately, not been in the right secondary school environment.

Oh dear, I am of the "old school" that believes that college is primarily about growing one's MIND, not growing one's income. Unless one is studying a profession (nursing, education), business or has a true gift (art, music), going to college is NOT the the path to a JOB. It is a path to learning how to think critically and apply very basic knowledge - both of which help with doing a job well and advancing in a career.

At Open Houses, the first question, after "If my son/daughter goes to your your school, will he/she get into medical school?" (mind you, the kid has 1140 on the SAT, not much of chance for med school) usually is, "Will my son/daughter be able to get a job?" My response to the second question usually is, "I bet your real reason for sending Suzie to college is NOT about getting a job, because if your only reason for sending your child to college is about a getting a job, then you should be apprenticing her as a baker or plumber, or trades person. Your son/daughter has a chance to leave here with a basic knowlege about the major science subject, hopefully will have developed a set of thinking, writing, speaking and modern lab skills. Getting a job will be up to her/him. We will assist in every way possible."

We need to assess why we are sending kids to college and take a hard look at what they leave high school with so we can stop forcing expensive time-consuming "requirements" for a job on people who can be successful in life with the correct secondary foundation and who do not need the debt and stress.

OK. I am open to hearing from others because I only have one mind... and there are days when I think I might be losing it!

[zharkov]

Over the last 20 years, about 2/3 of the new jobs that have been created in the US require college-level skills.  Except for students from very wealthy families, college is the ticket to a middle-class lifestyle.  And by "college," I mean not just a 4 year degree, but strong associates degree as well. 

Oh dear, I am of the "old school" that believes that college is primarily about growing one's MIND, not growing one's income. Unless one is studying a profession (nursing, education), business or has a true gift (art, music), going to college is NOT the the path to a JOB. It is a path to learning how to think critically and apply very basic knowledge - both of which help with doing a job well and advancing in a career.

Business people want critical thinkers, good writers, good speakers, people who work well in groups, and so on.  If you ask them, that is what they tell you.  The problem is that some business profs and students sometimes collude against general ed type courses, not understanding how important these liberal arts skills really are to employers.

[daurousseau]

Business people want critical thinkers, good writers, good speakers, people who work well in groups, and so on.

If you ask them, they do say that. If you observe them, they want a particular subset of such people.

* Work well in groups to which they are assigned
* Critically think to solve problems selected or created by those above
* Write and speak well enough to mislead the outside world
* Write and speak well enough to pass messages internally without confusing fellow employees

Change agents? No thank you, sir, unless your date of departure is early and firm.

[zharkov]

Change agents? No thank you, sir, unless your date of departure is early and firm.

Change agent?  As Obi Wan said, "That is a name I haven't heard in a very long time."

Seriously, I agree, or mostly so.  Most businesses don't want too many people rocking the boat, despite what they say. 

Rather than "mislead" the outside world, I might say "spin," but it's really a matter of degree.

[csguy]

Business people want critical thinkers, good writers, good speakers, people who work well in groups, and so on.  If you ask them, that is what they tell you.  The problem is that some business profs and students sometimes collude against general ed type courses, not understanding how important these liberal arts skills really are to employers.

Possibly because Business programs themselves include critical thinking, writing, speaking and working in groups. There's a bit more to business curricula than double entry bookkeeping and keyboarding.

Business profs tend to be concerned about bloated gen ed programs (a concern that they share with the sciences) and some probably resent the exclusion of Business from gen ed. I would argue that most universities graduate people who are financially illiterate.