next »

[arpodah]

   The subject of political correctness (in words or actions) arose in another thread, so I'll ask a question here along with an answer. 

   Can any forumites recall an experience with another person in which one did or said something that one thought was appropriate for the situation, only to find out that one's action/statement was not received by the other person in the manner in which one had intended?  YES
   In college/graduate school, I have been scolded or given disapproving looks by two or three women (one being my closest female friend of nearly twenty years) for holding a building door open for them to pass through if I happened to be in front of them (though they probably never noticed that I occasionally did the same for men). In the same time period, I had been admonished by several female friends/acquaintances of the same age group that they found it "ungentlemanly" of me or any man to have failed to open or hold open a door. So I got different responses for the same action, but there was a clear positive bias toward opening the door (currently politically incorrect, but not in the areas where I lived); this is the more reliably inoffensive response if I have no opportunity to know the woman well enough to know her preference.
   As for the female friend I mentioned, she opens her own doors because opening doors is not among her criteria for considering a man a gentleman--one less thing for me to do, and she still considers me a gentleman.
       

 
 

[crazybatlady]

Why are you holding the door open for women? Is it because they are nearly to the door, and you don't want it to slam closed in their faces? Or is it for some other reason (I won't mention patriarchy because you're tired of hearing about that for the last 25 years)?

I hold the door when someone is approaching it behind me and hu is not so far away as to make holding it awkward.

I hold or don't hold the door REGARDLESS OF GENDER.

That might be the part you are missing.

cbl, not an essentialist

[arpodah]

Why are you holding the door open for women? Is it because they are nearly to the door, and you don't want it to slam closed in their faces? 

Yes.

Or is it for some other reason (I won't mention patriarchy because you're tired of hearing about that for the last 25 years)?

   As indicated, most (not all) women in my social culture expect it, not because they can't open the door for themselves, but because many take this as one small criterion of the quality of a man's character. You must realize that in many regional cultures, it is a social death knell for a man to not be considered a "gentleman", both personally and professionally. A gentleman is polite, courteous, respectful, modest, and nice to women and men. There is NO implication of considering women as weak, helpless, less intelligent, or needing to be controlled; any man who thinks these things about women is no gentleman!
   But I hasten to add that a gentleman, though never looking for a fight, will stand up for himself and will not tolerate any man or woman trying to take advantage of him or falsely accuse him of anything. However intentional or unintentional, second-wave feminism did create a culture of male-villification (which I'm glad you said you don't want), resulting in a generation of men drowning in blame, self-hatred, and constant apology for crimes and atrocities against women that the majority of men never committed. It only takes a small proportion of individuals of a group to make the whole group look bad. I lived through that social upheaval; never again will I and many men of my generation accept blame or responsibility for things we didn't do. This is why I'm thankful that third-wave feminism acknowledges the positive aspects of male-female gender differences and avoids blame-games. If there is any vestige of "The Patriarchy" left, I hope it will be too negligible for anyone to notice or care. And since I can't honestly see what "The Patriarchy" has ever done for me, I have no reason not to wish you well in vanquishing it.   

I hold the door when someone is approaching it behind me and hu is not so far away as to make holding it awkward.
I hold or don't hold the door REGARDLESS OF GENDER.

As indicated in my post, I do the same.

[yellowtractor]

   Can any forumites recall an experience with another person in which one did or said something that one thought was appropriate for the situation, only to find out that one's action/statement was not received by the other person in the manner in which one had intended?

Isn't this a fundamental, inescapable condition of social life among our species?

[dr_stones]

I will be a gentleman until I die, regardless of who(m) I might I offend.

Sorry, guys, you get your own doors . . .

[crazybatlady]

I will be a gentleman until I die, regardless of who(m) I might I offend.

Me too.

cbl

[dr_stones]

I will be a gentleman until I die, regardless of who(m) I might I offend.

Me too.

cbl

We need to go out and be gentlemen. At a club somewhere.  A gentlemen's club.

Oops.

Nevermind.

Or not?

Hell, I don't know.

Back to writing.