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[normative_]

Why is it that on both the "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of your Dreams" threads, the dream men/women are overwhelmingly white?  I noticed that only a couple non-white dreamboats have been mentioned, and usually not until page 4 or so, if that.

I had to roll my eyes at most of the choices for both "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of Your Dreams."  What are you people on?  Crack? 

Apparently you don't like our choices. So? Now you know what we do like. That's our business.

I was going to add Debra Wilson, but now I won't, just for you.

[nonny]

Why is it that on both the "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of your Dreams" threads, the dream men/women are overwhelmingly white?

Maybe most of the posters are white?  Maybe because dreams tend to reveal basic desires, and with it, basic prejudices?  In any case, it's silly to take people morally to task for their attractions.  It's worth noting that sense of attractiveness is culturally shaped, and reflects cultural biases, but on an individual level--sheesh, let people find pretty whoever they like.

I had to roll my eyes at most of the choices for both "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of Your Dreams."  What are you people on?  Crack?

I am totally with you here.  I expected more from academics.  The choices seem mostly to be run of the mill hollywood fare, with a lot of bimbos and mimbos.

But what are yours?

[ludicrous]

Apparently you don't like our choices. So? Now you know what we do like. That's our business.

I was going to add Debra Wilson, but now I won't, just for you.

Hold on.  I never said I disliked ALL the choices.  I actually like some of the choices.  Gong Li, for one--although I personally take responsible for that one, since I mentioned her in a bunch of movie threads first.  I also liked the pick for Patty Smyth.  I also was quite delighted that some of the picks were for older women.

I don't even know who Debra Wilson is, I'm afraid.  Is she a singer or another Hollywood bimbo?

Why is it that on both the "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of your Dreams" threads, the dream men/women are overwhelmingly white?

Maybe most of the posters are white?  Maybe because dreams tend to reveal basic desires, and with it, basic prejudices?  In any case, it's silly to take people morally to task for their attractions.  It's worth noting that sense of attractiveness is culturally shaped, and reflects cultural biases, but on an individual level--sheesh, let people find pretty whoever they like.

I had to roll my eyes at most of the choices for both "Woman of Your Dreams" and "Man of Your Dreams."  What are you people on?  Crack?

I am totally with you here.  I expected more from academics.  The choices seem mostly to be run of the mill hollywood fare, with a lot of bimbos and mimbos.

But what are yours?

Attractiveness is not only CULTURALLY shaped, but it is RACIALLY-SHAPED.  Why else are nonwhite women running to the plastic surgeons to whiten themselves (e.g., bleaching of the skin and hair, narrowing of the nose, eyelids, breast implants, etc.)?

Totally agree that most of the choices are run-of-the-mill Hollywood types.  That's largely why I had to roll my eyes.  Yet, they're high-profile and visible, so there's a common point of reference there for selecting "attractive" types.

My picks:  I have to think about this more, because attractiveness is not just physical.  There are plenty of really attractive men and women, but they are just mind-numbingly dumb that their stupidity just about kills any physical attractiveness they have.  I've met some of these types. 

Anyhow, my preliminary choices are:

WOMEN:

Catherine Deneuve (I hope I spelled her name right).

MEN

Vincent Perez (Based on my selection of both Catherine Deneuve and Vincent Perez, you can tell I just watched the film "Indochine.")

[ludicrous]

I accidentally hit POST before I was done typing.  Anyway, here are my picks:

WOMEN

Gong Li
Michelle Kwan - Beautiful and just a class act.
Catherine Deneuve
Vanessa Williams
Angela Bassett
Hilary Clinton - Smart as a whip and not so bad on the eyes...at least some years ago.  She does scare me a little though.


MEN

Vincent Perez
Brad Pitt - Easy on the eyes and seems like a genuine nice guy.
Osama Barack
Michael Moore--if he were 200 lbs thinner.  He's hilarious, what can I say?

[acrimone]

Hilary Clinton - Smart as a whip and not so bad on the eyes...at least some years ago.  She does scare me a little though.

I have to say that she doesn't strike me as that smart (capable, yes, but that's not the same thing) and even the pictures of young hotness are kinda homely.

[ludicrous]

Other picks:

WOMEN

I'm trying to come up with a Hollywood celebrity, but the actresses seem so self-absorbed, superficial, and brain-dead. 

Reese Witherspoon - A cutie and seems to be genuinely nice.

MEN

Takeshi Kaneshiro - He was in "Chungking Express" and "The House of the Flying Daggers."  Speaks 5 languages! Easy on the eyes.
Tom Brokaw
Benicio del Toro - Ridiculously good-looking. Seems hilarious.

[ludicrous]

Man, how could I have forgotten the following women?

Tina Turner
The late Princess Diana

And the following men:

Bill Gates - There's something quite intriguing, and strangely attractive, about nerdy, brainy, resourceful men in high power.
The men who founded Google
The men who founded Yahoo!

[walker_percy]

Teri Hatcher

BTW, I can't figure out the *** in "flas***ude" re: Paula.  Can someone provide the missing letters? (I think if you put _ between them they don't get *'d).  I love watching Paula cook - so much butter!

OMG!  I got censored for using a completely made-up word.  Yes, I wrote f l a s h i t u d e.  The program apparently deletes the four letters s h i t anytime they appear in sequence, regardless of whether they are just plopped down in the middle of a word.

That's hilarious! Hmm. What other words can we screw with?

s***ake mushrooms
morass
riddick bo
acumen

[walker_percy]

Teri Hatcher

BTW, I can't figure out the *** in "flas***ude" re: Paula.  Can someone provide the missing letters? (I think if you put _ between them they don't get *'d).  I love watching Paula cook - so much butter!

OMG!  I got censored for using a completely made-up word.  Yes, I wrote f l a s h i t u d e.  The program apparently deletes the four letters s h i t anytime they appear in sequence, regardless of whether they are just plopped down in the middle of a word.

That's hilarious! Hmm. What other words can we screw with?

s***ake mushrooms
morass
riddick bo
acumen

Ha ha ha. It worked on shi-ta-ke

[iomhaigh]

So.... sexually attractive well-known performers who work in Hollywood are "bimbos and mimbos" ?   I suppose they're all sexually promiscuous because we listed them here, too, aren't they?   

And that's not a wholly stereotypical and unfounded accusation bred of ignorance?  Didn't we "academics" clear up that gross misconception oh, say, 80 years ago?  Haven't we been battling it for millenia?   

Perhaps you need to examine your own prejudices before calling the rest of us to task? 

I expected more from academics than shallow argumentation based on eons of social prejudice.
   

There are plenty of really attractive men and women, but they are just mind-numbingly dumb that their stupidity just about kills any physical attractiveness they have.  I've met some of these types. 

I am totally with you here.  I expected more from academics.  The choices seem mostly to be run of the mill hollywood fare, with a lot of bimbos and mimbos.

[ludicrous]

So.... sexually attractive well-known performers who work in Hollywood are "bimbos and mimbos" ?   I suppose they're all sexually promiscuous because we listed them here, too, aren't they?   

And that's not a wholly stereotypical and unfounded accusation bred of ignorance?  Didn't we "academics" clear up that gross misconception oh, say, 80 years ago?  Haven't we been battling it for millenia?   

Perhaps you need to examine your own prejudices before calling the rest of us to task? 

I expected more from academics than shallow argumentation based on eons of social prejudice.
   

There are plenty of really attractive men and women, but they are just mind-numbingly dumb that their stupidity just about kills any physical attractiveness they have.  I've met some of these types. 

I am totally with you here.  I expected more from academics.  The choices seem mostly to be run of the mill hollywood fare, with a lot of bimbos and mimbos.

Boy, I didn't realize that people would get so worked up.

Although I did a terrible job of making my point, and, yes, I did rely on some generalizations/stereotypes, I did not say that ALL physically attractive men and women were necessarily stupid, or that all celebrities were morons (and I don't think nonny was saying this either).   I'm saying that there are SOME--plenty actually--bone-headed people who happen to be good-looking.  I've met some.  But I've also met unattractive people who were not so bright.  I've also met both attractive and terribly unattractive people who were extremely bright. 

I think that most of the actors/actresses that forumites have listed are NOT morons. 

But seriously.  How smart (or educated) would you say the "average" celebrity is?  A bunch of them are college-educated, but I would guess that the majority are not.  On one end of the spectrum, we have Jodi Foster et al., who attended Ivy-league institutions; on the other end of the spectrum, we have high-school drop-outs (e.g. Julia Roberts) and those with only a high school degree (the great majority of young Hollywood, I would say--e.g., Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, etc.).  Then we have a large group with college degrees at lesser known institutions.

[merce]

This is a lot of blah blah for a fantasy.
None of this belongs in a dream with the woman of my dreams dear ludicrous.
oOOoo. Ludicris however would be in a dream with the man of my dreams.

So.... sexually attractive well-known performers who work in Hollywood are "bimbos and mimbos" ?   I suppose they're all sexually promiscuous because we listed them here, too, aren't they?   

And that's not a wholly stereotypical and unfounded accusation bred of ignorance?  Didn't we "academics" clear up that gross misconception oh, say, 80 years ago?  Haven't we been battling it for millenia?   

Perhaps you need to examine your own prejudices before calling the rest of us to task? 

I expected more from academics than shallow argumentation based on eons of social prejudice.
   

There are plenty of really attractive men and women, but they are just mind-numbingly dumb that their stupidity just about kills any physical attractiveness they have.  I've met some of these types. 

I am totally with you here.  I expected more from academics.  The choices seem mostly to be run of the mill hollywood fare, with a lot of bimbos and mimbos.

Boy, I didn't realize that people would get so worked up.

Although I did a terrible job of making my point, and, yes, I did rely on some generalizations/stereotypes, I did not say that ALL physically attractive men and women were necessarily stupid, or that all celebrities were morons (and I don't think nonny was saying this either).   I'm saying that there are SOME--plenty actually--bone-headed people who happen to be good-looking.  I've met some.  But I've also met unattractive people who were not so bright.  I've also met both attractive and terribly unattractive people who were extremely bright. 

I think that most of the actors/actresses that forumites have listed are NOT morons. 

But seriously.  How smart (or educated) would you say the "average" celebrity is?  A bunch of them are college-educated, but I would guess that the majority are not.  On one end of the spectrum, we have Jodi Foster et al., who attended Ivy-league institutions; on the other end of the spectrum, we have high-school drop-outs (e.g. Julia Roberts) and those with only a high school degree (the great majority of young Hollywood, I would say--e.g., Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, etc.).  Then we have a large group with college degrees at lesser known institutions.

[iomhaigh]

Rowan posted a list of famous actors who were not only college-educated, but held graduate degrees, a few months ago.  Most successful British actors have schooling, as do most American actors who last past their 20s. 

Sigh.

The "Duke" started in film in the 1920's, just as a point of reference.  And he played that one character really well.

Source:  U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics; http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos093.htm#training
TRAINING, OTHER QUALIFICATIONS, AND ADVANCEMENT
Formal dramatic training, either through an acting conservatory or a university program, generally is necessary, but some people successfully enter the field without it. Most people studying for a bachelor’s degree take courses in radio and television broadcasting, communications, film, theater, drama, or dramatic literature. Many continue their academic training and receive a Master of Fine Arts (MFA) degree. Advanced curricula may include courses in stage speech and movement, directing, playwriting, and design, as well as intensive acting workshops. The National Association of Schools of Theatre accredits 135 programs in theater arts. A few people go into acting following successful careers in other fields, such as broadcasting or announcing.


Some actors you might have heard of:  (Oscar winners and nominees in bold, I didn't feel like searching out Emmys and Tonys)

Susan Sarandon - Undergrad – Catholic School of America
Tim Robbins - SUNY Plattsburg,  UCLA Film School
Denzel Washington   BA in Drama and Journalism Fordham University, Graduate work – American Conservatory Theatre
Forrest Whitaker – Univ of Southern CA (opera) Drama Studio London (UC Berkley)
Judy Dench – Central School of Speecha dn Drama – London,
Meryl Streep – Yale School of Drama

Some alumni lists from different schools:
North Carolina School of the Arts
Alumni: Diedrich Bader, K. Todd Freeman, Tom Hulce , Mary-Louise Parker, Jada Pinkett Smith

Southern Methodist Univ. Alumni: Kathy Bates (BFA), Powers Booth(MFA),

The Actor’s Studio Alumni – Marlon Brando, Robert DeNiro (also attended the Stella Adler School), Norman Mailer, Eli Wallach, Sidney Poitier,

UCLA
Corbin Bernson, Jack Black , Carol Burnett, James Dean, Joyce DeWitt, Mariska Hargitay, Mark Harmon, Tim Robbins, Tom Skerritt, George Takei,

Tisch School of the Arts NYU Alumni – Barry Bostwick, Peter Krause,  Eriq LaSalle, Debra Messing,

Royal Academy of the Dramatic Arts:
Peter O’Toole, Richard Attenborough, Alan Bates, Sean Bean, Kenneth Branagh, Michael Caine, Timothy Dalton, Brian Epstein, Ralph Finnes, Albert Finney, John Gielgud, Ian Holme, Anthony Hopkins, Trevor Howard, John Hurt, Glenda Jackson, Vivien Leigh, Joan Littlewood, Roger Moore, Alan Rickman, Fiona Shaw

Needless to say this is just hte tip of the iceberg.  Yes you can make it in film and television without going to college, on stage it is much tougher.  Longevity - training helps.

 

[ludicrous]

This is a lot of blah blah for a fantasy.
None of this belongs in a dream with the woman of my dreams dear ludicrous.
oOOoo. Ludicris however would be in a dream with the man of my dreams.

Oooooooooookay.  LOL.




Iomhaigh.  Thanks for the list.  I recall quickly scanning that post a while back. 

I think where we (and others) may differ is in how we define "woman of your dreams" or "man of your dreams."  Do we define it in terms of  physical attraction and our desire to have sex with a certain celebrity?   Or is it something more, say, in the realm of a life-partner?  My definition is the latter.  If it were just based on physical attributes/physical attraction alone, I think a one-, two-, or three-night stand is sufficient.  I would actually think that a life partnership would be intolerable if the dreamboat contributed nothing beyond his or her physical attributes.  But that's just me. 

[iomhaigh]

...or that the true man or woman of my dreams is far too multi-faceted and complicated to be summed up by a name of someone I do not know?  Indeed, I do not know the man or woman of my dreams because I haven't met that person yet.

This is lusty fantasy objectification land.