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[charlie_11]

Dear forumites:

I have been hearing a lot about the critical oversupply of English Lit
 PhDs on this forum, from other faculty--everywhere. Now that I am applying to doctorate programs, I have been urged to pursue a comp degree by my colleagues. I have been teaching composition for four years, and I am familiar with some of the pedagogical approaches, but that's it. At any rate, I have a pretty good idea of what is expected of an applicant and literature, but not so good an idea of what type of preparation a composition student needs. I know many schools are now offering courses in college composition at the master's level, but these are fairly new and none of my former insitutions offered them. Furthermore, it seems that Comp PhD programs want their students to come in with a solid theoretical background. I guess what I am asking is, as applicants in composition, what can they expect from us? I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that a strong background in literature and a reading familiarity with research composition would be enough, but I have doubts. Should my writing sample be in the area of composition if I want to compete? Do I have to know exactly what aspect of composition I want to study going in? Finally, does anyone know of a good online or distance course that might offer the theoretical grounding that I need?

Please forgive my confusion.

Oh...if anyone is wondering, I am THE CHarlie, back from two years ago. I haven't hijacked the name, but they wouldn't let me register under my old moniker.

[trentsands]

First of all, before you make this decision, be sure you are actually interested in intense dissertation study in composition.  A dissertation subject will likely deal with some aspect of how to effectly teach first year composition or how students effectly learn first year composition.  Often, a dissertation in composition can be quite quantitative since one will be studying human populations, thus a quantitative research or stats course may be required at the graduate level.

I briefly considered a Ph.D. in composition since I do enjoy teaching freshman composition, but I decided this would not be a good road for me because I don't think I'd enjoy what I'd have to research for my dissertation. I chose literature instead.

For your other questions, I suggest researching at the websites of departments that offer Ph.D. in Composition.  The schools themselves will be the best indicators of what you need.  My instinct is to say that your teaching experience will carry a lot of weight in this regard and that many Ph.D. programs would welcome qualified students who studied another field in English.

[_touchedbyanoodle_]

Your colleagues who are pushing you to get a PhD in composition must hate you. Run. Run away from the field as quickly as you can. I am in composition, and I dream every day of picking another field and starting over. I say that as someone who truly does love teaching composition and even has a full-time job.

RUN.

[seniorscholar]

My sense is that people with a *doctorate* in composition are not the people who spend their lives teaching composition: they're more likely, very soon, to be directors of composition programs or writing centers, and spend their lives supervising adjuncts, training grad students, and so forth. At least at my R-1, the actual comp teaching (150+ sections of comp 1 per semester plus the remedial and the upper-level courses) is done by grad students, VAP faculty (often ABD in some literary field), and adjuncts: yes it's exploitation, but it isn't possible to get the university to support an additional 50 tenure-track lines in the department, which is what it would take to teach all of the first and second year writing with full-time faculty (don't think we haven't tried). We currently have a grand total of 2 tenured faculty with doctorates in comp; almost all of their work is supervisory and graduate teaching. We keep trying to hire a junior person because the comp director would like to get out of administration and back to research, but can't find one. That's what the demand for people qualified to direct writing programs pretty soon has been like in recent years. (And we gave up looking for someone to create and run a master's in technical/scientific writing -- there is an enormous local market for MA-level people who can do that work -- after three years of failed searches.)

[abdbiz]

get a Ph. D in accounting. you can compose whatever the hell you want after that


you could hire a comp professor for a year if you desire



accountants are getting like 130k to start at mediocre to bad schools, the better people are getting like 200k

[charlie_11]

Thanks for your replies. I don't think this is for me. I won't...succumb...to the...pressure....

I have spent enough time in writing centers to know that I love Robert Browning way more.

[my2cents]

Comp. classes are the most disdained classes in Eng. Lit depts. Tenured faculty will never teach them. They are taught by grad students, lecturers and sometimes VAPs. Yes indeed, the demand for comp is indeed high -- because many students have horrible writing skills... that hurt them even in other classes. Thus other depts, as well as Eng, encourage, if not demand, mandatory Eng. comp classes, and are firm proponents of writing centers...
If you do eventually get a PhD in Comp, you will not likely be greeted with enthusiasm among your peers... You may be mocked or even, resented, by them. If not, you will certainly be set "apart" from them -- as the token "comp guy" or "gal"... 

You note that there is an oversupply of Eng PhDs. That's correct. You say you like to teach. You say you would not mind teaching comp or developing comp teaching methods or curricula. You can imagine that you may enjoy being involved in a writing center, or in an overseas writing program...

Therefore you should perhaps consider pursuing an Ed degree. If you did a masters and/or  PhD in Ed. you could specialize in comp skills, writing, teaching undergrads... you could teach in classes, in a variety of environments, as part of your research! Once you have your Ed. degree, you would have a multitude of options -- to research in comp curricula, developing/editing comp.textbooks, work in a writing center... or if you are bored with that working in higher admin positions, be it in school-boards or in the Dean's office as Dean of Students etc... A PhD Ed. in the right field (such as in composition/writing curricula) offers up many more possibilites than an Eng PhD...

So I too say RUN. FLEE... Unless you want to be a scorned slave for the rest of your life... 
And be SMARTER than your Eng grad friends, and indeed your Eng profs...
And get an higher Ed. degree.
And be their boss.     

[tulipp]

I would like to note that Composition (or Composition Studies or Writing Studies or Composition and Rhetoric) is an expanding field that offers many opportunities for interesting, engaging, nuanced intellectual work.  Some of that work is service.  Some of it is training graduate students.  Some of it is in the pedagogy of first-year writing. 

But there are a lot of other options: studying amateur writing and writing practices, exploring communities of writers and writing practices, contributing to a changing understanding of what "writing" involves in new media environments, etc.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that there are plenty of graduate programs out there (I am a graduate of one of them) that encourage work that is not limited to the teaching of first year composition.

Not, as Seinfeld would say, that there's anything wrong with that.

[charlie_11]

Thanks Tulipp. Then maybe you have some insight on what type of preparation these programs expect from PhD students...???

I haven't gotten much from websites to suggest anything other than a 3.0 in English or a related field and reported GRE general test scores are necessary. And I know how much that means.

[tekjansen]

Hey Charlie,

I went into a Rhet/Comp masters program with little to no experience in Rhet/Comp (I thought I was a Shakespeare junkie...I became a theory junkie).  I entered a highly touted program and did just fine.  It was also flexible enough where those of us interested in technology and writing had a place next to the historian, along side the technical writing theorist. 

I defend my dissertation tomorrow from a different PhD program in writing with a technology focus and move two weeks later to start my tenure-track position. This program is very interdisciplinary and I studied with museum directors, urban planners, technical writers, folklore theorists, and yes, composition instructors.  It's been a great, flexible degree for me and my colleagues.  Think about it.

tekjansen

[tulipp]

Hi Charlie,

Of course I can't speak for programs or committees in general and am new to this forum, although I've been lurking for months [insert other blanket qualifications here], but here I go anyway.  I really think that as someone who has a literary background, a strong record, and teaching experience, you do not need to worry about filling in the theoretical gaps: that is what a PhD program will do.  It sounds like you have the qualifications you need.

However, let's say that you want to do a little reading and then build language into your application, perhaps tweak your writing sample (although I think quality is much more important than subject matter).  I'm taking the travel guide approach here, and I hope that these are useful suggestions. 

If you only read one book, try Joseph Harris' A Teaching Subject: Composition Since 1966.  This is a great, compact book that focuses on the ways that five major composition concepts (growth, voice, process, error, community) have evolved, and it might give you a sense not of what theory you might need but rather of how you might understand the value of theory in composition.  The book covers a lot of ground in a very short space and will give you a lot of history, as well.

If you read two books, I'd recommend the 2003 collection Composition Studies in the New Millennium: Rereading the Past, Rewriting the Future by Lynn Z. Bloom, Donald A. Daiker, and Edward M. White.  This will give you a sense of range and of some of the major questions that are being asked in composition studies these days. 

If you have a little more time, you might want to browse through recent volumes of some of the major journals, again to give you a sense of range, theoretical variety, major questions.  George Mason Univ. has a good listing at http://mason.gmu.edu/~bhawk/journals/links.html; I'd start with CCC, JAC, Computers and Composition, and Writing on the Edge . 

Finally, here's a handful of other books that might give you the broader grounding in theory you're looking for;this is an idiosyncratic list:
* Stephen M. North's The Making of Knowledge in Composition (1987)
* Susan Miller's Textual Carnivals: The Politics of Composition (1993)
* John Trimbur's Popular Literacy: Studies in Cultural Practices and Poetics (2001)
* Anis Bawarshi's Genre and the Invention of the Writer (2003)
* Raul Sanchez' The Function of Theory in Composition Studies (2006)

Other people no doubt would recommend other books, but that's my two cents.  Good luck, Charlie!

[booknerd]

One thing to consider is rhetoric.  Any study of composition without deep and broad study of rhetoric will be anemic.  That's why they are Rhet/Comp programs for the most part.  Yes, being "the comp person" in the department will relegate you to years of admin work; however, I've yet to see a rhetoric scholar (English dept not Communication dept) get saddled with those duties.  Plus you can turn your rhetoric lens on all your favorite literature texts.

[charlie_11]

Thanks again to all. Especially Tulipp. I am looking up those titles now. Hope I can return the favor.

CHarlie

[eng00]

Do you need an MA in Rhet/Comp in order to get into a Ph.D. program in Rhet/Comp?  If I have an MA in Lit, would I be required to take extra classes in the Ph.D.  Also, does University of Utah have a good program.

[tuxedo_cat]

Eng00 -- don't post the same question on two different threads.  Let's officially put this one back in the zombie pile and allow others to respond to your question on the other thread.