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[zowie]

jonesy there are many hispanics, maybe not many, whites and other groups who attend HBCUs.  I'm told the African Americans don't like that too much as it "dilutes the 'H' in HBCU."

That's my point, in a sense.  If HCBU's aren't known as "good" schools, or, to put it another way, if they're known, primarily, for being "Black" why would a non-African American want to go to one? 

To me, this seems like wanting to go to BYU...but the potential student isn't Mormon. 

Right on both counts!!  I can never, ever figure it out.  Sure, if persons who are not African American wish to attend an HBCU, it is that person's perogative and choice.   I am neither white nor African American, though were I white, attending an HBCU would be unthinkable because of so much to choose from as a "hypothetical" white person, be it a low-tier state university or private one.  The quality of education would be better. That means anywhere other than an HBCU.  There are about 150 HBCUs, btw.  This is something that tenured feminist can also research in his/her/its spare non-tenured feminist time.  Many HBCUs, jonesy, have unusually high tuitions, though many of them are private institutions, and the quality of education, so true, is low and not good in comparison.  Many, however, to be fair, are changing.  But know that HBCUs do not, of course, possess the same kinds of endowments that a low-tier predominantely "white" institution may have.  This fact has created speculation among many in Academe i.e., educators, administrators to believe, as many have reported, that monies are being misappropriated or mismanaged by higherups at HBCUs.  Very few African American HBCU alumni give back to their universities, with good reason.

Back to your point:  some major programs such as "library science" may only be offered at an HBCU, say, and this explains some of why non-African Americans would want to matriculate there.  It is often a question of major or perhaps even scholarship.  But, like you, it appears an odd choice to make, outside of the reasons given, to attend an HBCU if one does not put the "B" in HBCU. 

There are many African American students who are proud, rightly so, I'd say, to be at an HBCU and who can be what I would say is "racial" and not "racist" in terms of their politics.  It's very interesting.  However, I still do not recommend HBCUs.  The world's grown too diverse and complex for such segregation.

[tenured_feminist]

You miss my point, Zowie, which is that you have shown a propensity in the past to display certain forms of entitled thinking that both invoke gender and race hierarchies and call into question your capacity to draw reasonable conclusions.

And I had no idea that the combination of tenure and feminism could be so frightening!

[roarheels]

The HBCU in my hometown has had some historical troubles due to low finances; however, I can attest as my mother has been on their board for nearly 15 years that this had nothing to do with mismanagment. Primarily, their troubles stem from facilities issues. Labs, classrooms, and dorms are all beautiful but incredibly old and unrenovated. As a result, their ability to attract students is minimal and fully 90% of the students they do attract receive full financial aid (either gov't or church based). Almost every year a new president comes to work at the HBCU in order to rectify these deficiencies. All these Presidents have been amazingly well qualified and were taking the job in hopes of doing something 'socially responsible' as they hated to see the institution (which has a long and proud history) suffer. However not one President has stayed more than a 2 year period. The all allege that the situation is intractable and the university deserves to close at the end of their tenures. In contrast, another HBCU up the road about 20 minutes is thriving. Their application numbers are up, their finances are stable and their students are successful. HBCU's like any 'type' of college have good exemplars and bad ones.

[oldchair]

I don't want to interrupt the fireworks, but I believe the difficulties of many HBCUs are a matter of simple economics. 

HBCUs were built at a time when African American students did not have access to other institutions.  Once African Americans gained such access, HBCUs lost enrollment.  It's not a new story, nor is it one that is limited to racially identifiable institutions.  Many rural areas have struggling (or closed) private colleges that just couldn't compete when regional state-supported institutions opened up nearby.  Without an influx of state money, the private schools were forced to raise tuition, increase teaching loads, and delay construction and maintenance of facilities.  As a result, they became less attractive to prospective students. 

HBCUs aren't threatened because of mismanagement, although that happens in all kinds of schools.  They're threatened by desegregation and the expansion of regional campuses.  In my area, there are several struggling HBCUs.  Where are the students that once attended them?  Down the hall taking classes for a third of the cost.

[anchorite]

While I cannot disagree with the OP that many HBCU's are poorly managed, you discount the success of HBCU's in many areas, particularly in sending African Americans on to graduate and professional schools.  3 of the top HBCU's send more students to medical school than *ALL* TWI's combined.  And you certainly cannot discount the success of Morehouse, Spelman, and Howard as stellar academic powerhouses.  FAMU produces an outstanding crop of Black engineers yearly; Dillard in New Orleans (pre-Katrina) sent more African American kids to medical school than any other school in Louisiana (and Dillard was, and is, a tiny, tiny school).  So there are many success stories to balance the negatives.  If you want more information, including the sources of my statistics above, please check out the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education (JBHE).

[stagolee]

Are HBCUs viable today?

Yes.

[zowie]

You miss my point, Zowie, which is that you have shown a propensity in the past to display certain forms of entitled thinking that both invoke gender and race hierarchies and call into question your capacity to draw reasonable conclusions.

And I had no idea that the combination of tenure and feminism could be so frightening!

Sounds like a matter of opinion, tenured feminist.  You are also guilty of displaying a certain tendency towards "entitlement."  Why it shows and sounds in your moniker, for heaven's sake :)

[conjugate]

I worked at an HBCU for three years.  Despite some problems, the school had some very good programs, and there are a number of students who have gone on to get other degrees; one of my students from that school is now a successful attorney, and it was visited by Ph.D. or M.D. recipients who had been successful undergraduates.

Other programs were loathsome, and I could regale you with stories (but won't as I think they'd be mistaken for anecdotal evidence for the inadequacies of HBCUs).  A colleague went to another HBCU, and graded his calculus class the way he felt that they deserved; the president of the college called him in to explain that she was changing the grades he'd given because they were too low.  He resigned in protest and (the last I heard) was working for ETS designing test questions.  His standards were no worse than mine, and nobody in the administration questioned my standards or my grading.  So I think it's fair to say it varies considerably.

[oldchair]

  A colleague went to another HBCU, and graded his calculus class the way he felt that they deserved; the president of the college called him in to explain that she was changing the grades he'd given because they were too low.  He resigned in protest and (the last I heard) was working for ETS designing test questions.  His standards were no worse than mine, and nobody in the administration questioned my standards or my grading.  So I think it's fair to say it varies considerably.

A couple of years ago there was a HBCU in South Carolina that began a program called "Success Equals Effort" or something close to that.  The idea, as I recall, was that faculty had to base a large percentage of final grades on effort rather than performance.  There were some resignations.

I think, though, this kind of top-down nonsense is more indicative of desperate tuition-driven schools, which is what some HBCUs have become, than it is HBCUs in general. 

I'd be more worried about working at a school with a "managed curriculum" than I would an HBCU.

[gennimom]

HBCUs quite often give full scholarships to white students to increase their diversity. My brother-in-law was offered one.

As far as being viable, depends on the school. NC A&T is believed, I think, to be the best as well as the largest of the 1890 institutions. The ones in my home state don't enjoy quite as stellar reputations though.

[dr_stones]

Okay, help me out here.  I thought only African Americans were allowed to attend HCBUs..evidently, I'm very wrong. 

That would be a violation of the 14th Amendment on many levels.

My own experience in working with HBCUs is mixed.  However, there is a "welfare" quality to some interactions on funded research, namely that the HBCU takes its danesgeld for not doing much actual work and the partnered research institution carries the water on projects. 

I have worked with five HBCUs on federally-sponsored research, and excepting Xavier of New Orleans, this was decidedly the case. :(

[kaysixteen]

The economics/ end of segregation argument seems strong here.  Sadly, some of these schools are likely in such overall poor financial shape, that their reason for continued existence seems hard to glean.  Some Christian colleges are similarly afflicted.

[stagolee]

I am leaving an hbcu now for my dream job.  Another thing to consider...we work very hard with students educated in some of the worst school systems the inner city has to offer.  And we have many success stories with students that wouldn't get the time of day in a "traditional" college.

The goals are ultimately the same but our mission is different.

[oldchair]

I am leaving an hbcu now for my dream job.  Another thing to consider...we work very hard with students educated in some of the worst school systems the inner city has to offer.  And we have many success stories with students that wouldn't get the time of day in a "traditional" college.

The goals are ultimately the same but our mission is different.

Other HBCUs have similar success stories with student from the most poorly funded, indeed abandoned, rural schools. 

[jonesey]

Okay, help me out here.  I thought only African Americans were allowed to attend HCBUs..evidently, I'm very wrong. 

That would be a violation of the 14th Amendment on many levels.

Any more than an all-female college?  How is a women's college okay but an all Black HCBU illegal?