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[zowie]

This issue I know is a bit gentle but wanted to share it and look for other's thoughts on it but I was advising a few African American high school students recently about college choices and told them that imho as a non-African American that HBCUs would not challenge them to be scholars or good students.  I know this sounds racist but I speak from experience: I spent 3 years at an HBCU as an undergrad before I saw the light and left.  I also have many African American colleagues who feel the same as I that HBCUs are, in comparison to many predominantly white "state universities", rife with corruption various admin problems and exhorbitant tuitions with little quality education.  There probably are some HBCUs that don't fit the profile but many have had and continue to have these sorts of challenges. 

Are HBCUs viable today?

[beacon1]

This is an unfair question. It is like trying to list the best all time rock songs - there is no real answer. My experience has been that there are many good programs at HBCUs and some rotten ones as well. So how do you evaluate the overall quality of education? I think you have to look at it program by program.

[zowie]

This is an unfair question. It is like trying to list the best all time rock songs - there is no real answer.

But there is! That would be Zepplein's Kashmir.

I strongly believe that there's an overall malaise affecting HBCUs. Yes, this affect varies in degrees.  Examining HBCUs "program to program" misses the point.

[tenured_feminist]

Replace "HBCU" with "small liberal arts college." Rinse and repeat.

Replace "small liberal arts college" with "public flagship research institution." Rinse and repeat.

Replace "public flagship research institution" with "private research university." Rinse and repeat.

Trust the social scientist. An N of 1 is too small a sample from which to generalize.

[zowie]

Replace "HBCU" with "small liberal arts college." Rinse and repeat.

Replace "small liberal arts college" with "public flagship research institution." Rinse and repeat.

Replace "public flagship research institution" with "private research university." Rinse and repeat.

Trust the social scientist. An N of 1 is too small a sample from which to generalize.

I'm confused tenured fer is softner added to the "rinse and repeat" cycle? And should we use hot or cold water when repeating the rinse?

You seem to know much about "rinse and repeat" but evidently nothing about HBCUs.  But that could just be "margin of error".

[tenured_feminist]

I spent 3 years at an HBCU as an undergrad before I saw the light and left.  I also have many African American colleagues who feel the same as I

And the data that enables you to generalize about all HBCUs is . . . what? Give us a list of institutions and specifics and we might have something to discuss. And why would African American colleagues be presumed to be any more authoritative in their feelings than others? Unless we presume that all of your African American colleagues attended HBCUs themselves and further presume that they attended different ones than the ones you left??

[Yes, yes, I know, DNFTT, but I am procrastinating on writing an email I really don't want to write, OK?]

[zowie]

I spent 3 years at an HBCU as an undergrad before I saw the light and left.  I also have many African American colleagues who feel the same as I

And the data that enables you to generalize about all HBCUs is . . . what? Give us a list of institutions and specifics and we might have something to discuss. And why would African American colleagues be presumed to be any more authoritative in their feelings than others? Unless we presume that all of your African American colleagues attended HBCUs themselves and further presume that they attended different ones than the ones you left??

Yes to both assertions. When you're not feeling too tenured or feminist, tenured feminist,  go look up some data on the challenges of HBCUs which can be found in almost any work by Sowell, Gates, Jr. or Patricia Collins or the Journal of Black Education or any African American higher educational periodical in fact; and there are many other non-African American writers who opine on the subject. I'm not sure you'd like them and what they may have to say about HBCUs as they often speak in generalities about black culture and psychology, tsk, tsk . . . And ETITYW, it doesn't stop me from giving you my perspective.

[jonesey]

Okay, help me out here.  I thought only African Americans were allowed to attend HCBUs..evidently, I'm very wrong. 

[tenured_feminist]

Please provide the citation where Gates says that HCBUs are corrupt, have exorbitant tuitions, and provide little quality education.  Thanks much! Oh, and while you're at it, I'd also like the cite for where Patricia Hill Collins embraces Moynihan-ism. That would be fabulous.

And J, yes, HCBUs do admit white students. Hey, maybe Zowie is right about their pathologies if he's a proud product! Though I suppose one shouldn't generalize about the quality of an institution from one student.

[brunhilde]

Okay, help me out here.  I thought only African Americans were allowed to attend HCBUs..evidently, I'm very wrong. 

I believe that's where the H comes in to HBCU. They were historically Black. They tend to still be mostly Black, but are open to all.

[ennui]

And the award for Biggest Upcoming Forum Thread Train Wreck goes to...

I cover my eyes.

[zowie]

Please provide the citation where Gates says that HCBUs are corrupt, have exorbitant tuitions, and provide little quality education. 

Please cite where I said they did speak specifically on these matters...  tenured feminist, they all speak about HBCUs in many different ways.  You'll have to do your own research. You're tenured enough :)

Oh, and while you're at it, I'd also like the cite for where Patricia Hill Collins embraces Moynihan-ism. That would be fabulous.

Don't know about Collins, but Hillary embraces Socialism.  Does that help?

Hey, maybe Zowie is right about their pathologies if he's a proud product! Though I suppose one shouldn't generalize about the quality of an institution from one student.

Yes, I did say that I attended one for 3 years and then left.  I am the product of one, maybe even 3 who knows???  Unimportant.  Suffice it to say that the HBCU experience is different when you're not African American.  And jonesy there are many hispanics, maybe not many, whites and other groups who attend HBCUs.  I'm told the African Americans don't like that too much as it "dilutes the 'H' in HBCU." 

And dear tenured feminist why would you presumptuously use the masculin pronoun "he" when referring to me.  Such sexism ;)

[jonesey]

jonesy there are many hispanics, maybe not many, whites and other groups who attend HBCUs.  I'm told the African Americans don't like that too much as it "dilutes the 'H' in HBCU." 

That's my point, in a sense.  If HCBU's aren't known as "good" schools, or, to put it another way, if they're known, primarily, for being "Black" why would a non-African American want to go to one? 

To me, this seems like wanting to go to BYU...but the potential student isn't Mormon. 

[tenured_feminist]

You would be this Zowie, no?

As a PS I should point out that the letter mentioned that I had not "advanced to the finalist" stage.  Fine.  But then the next line states that those applicants that did advance were"fits" for the school but, get this, "not necessarily qualified for the job."  Yes, that's right "not necessarily qualified for the job."  Is this SLAC saying that its "fits" are not qualified for the job?  Tell me it ain't so.  I wonder if it were an AA decision, gender or other.  Vague, IMO.

Yeah, the guy who didn't make the short list and therefore KNOWS it must have been "AA . . . gender or other." But you could reregister under another name that people don't remember the next time you want to start a troll thread.

As my five year old would say, "BUSTED!"

[zowie]

You would be this Zowie, no?

As a PS I should point out that the letter mentioned that I had not "advanced to the finalist" stage.  Fine.  But then the next line states that those applicants that did advance were"fits" for the school but, get this, "not necessarily qualified for the job."  Yes, that's right "not necessarily qualified for the job."  Is this SLAC saying that its "fits" are not qualified for the job?  Tell me it ain't so.  I wonder if it were an AA decision, gender or other.  Vague, IMO.

Yeah, the guy who didn't make the short list and therefore KNOWS it must have been "AA . . . gender or other." But you could reregister under another name that people don't remember the next time you want to start a troll thread.

As my five year old would say, "BUSTED!"

Oh, please! tenured feminist.  I now take back your tenure and your . . . uh . . . feministness.  Yes, that's me. So what?  The SLAC in question in the thread/quote you miscite above was NOT an HBCU.  Your 2 + 2 came up 10. But that's due to your tacky sleuthing. And you call yourself tenured. Tenured my ass! Ooops!! Is that egg on your face?

As my 16-year-old might say GET REAL!