|
dr_crankypants
|
 |
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2007, 10:59:20 AM » |
|
From Mirriam-Webster Online: he: "2 -- used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified <he that hath ears to hear, let him hear -- Matthew 11:15 (Authorized Version)> <one should do the best he can>" man: "1b : the human race : HUMANKIND 2a : INDIVIDUAL, PERSON <a man could get killed there> b : the individual who can fulfill or who has been chosen to fulfill one's requirements <she's your man>" They also list s/he and define it as: "she or he -- used in writing as a pronoun of common gender." Is this your argument that it's not sexist? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I'm not ignoring you. I'm playing leapdog with your post.
"Now stop trying to sound funny and smart." -Wowowowowow
|
|
|
|
concordancia
|
|
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2007, 11:01:24 AM » |
|
From Mirriam-Webster Online: he: "2 -- used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified <he that hath ears to hear, let him hear -- Matthew 11:15 (Authorized Version)> <one should do the best he can>" man: "1b : the human race : HUMANKIND 2a : INDIVIDUAL, PERSON <a man could get killed there> b : the individual who can fulfill or who has been chosen to fulfill one's requirements <she's your man>" They also list s/he and define it as: "she or he -- used in writing as a pronoun of common gender." What part of the "because it has always been done isn't reasonable justification" is not sinking in? Once upon time it was considered good form for some people to own others. Once upon a time words that we now eschew were considered the normal way to refer to [fill in group not your own]. Languages change. The book of Matthew was NOT originally written in Modern English, partly because English did not exist at the time. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 11:03:52 AM by nomadicnomore »
|
Logged
|
I like money. I like to buy stuff and experiences with money.
|
|
|
|
adhoc
|
|
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2007, 11:03:03 AM » |
|
Is this your argument that it's not sexist? It is support for the argument that "he" and "man" can properly be used generically. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
just_dave
|
|
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2007, 11:06:18 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
just_dave
|
|
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2007, 11:09:49 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
adhoc
|
|
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2007, 11:11:47 AM » |
|
What part of the "because it has always been done isn't reasonable justification" is not sinking in? Once upon time it was considered good form for some people to own others. Once upon a time words that we now eschew were considered the normal way to refer to [fill in group not your own]. Languages change. The book of Matthew was NOT originally written in Modern English, partly because English did not exist at the time. You seem to be completely missing the point here. First, the argument is not "it has always been ," the argument is that it is currently proper to use those words in that way. Second, slavery and the language of Matthew could not be less relevant to the discussion. In the case of Mattthew, it is the English translation used as an example of proper English that is relevant. Finally, while you are right in saying that languages change, English is not changing to include "hu." Perhaps an argument could be made that it is changing to accept "s/he" or "they" as a singular pronoun, but that's a different discussion. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mytiaraisaskew
|
|
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2007, 11:16:14 AM » |
|
I also started using hu, like infopri, because when I first started posting it appeared to be common usage. And I must admit that the other day I looked at someone who had annoyed the snot out of me and thought to myself, "you are SUCH a huhole." The forum has infiltrated my life.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Fear my Righteous Scepter of Wrath! (with thanks to prof. viola)
|
|
|
|
concordancia
|
|
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2007, 11:18:00 AM » |
|
Languages change because people start using words differently or make up new ones. They are used before they make it to the dictionary. As a matter of fact, they make it to the dictionary because they are used. Given that this discussion is taking place, "hu" has made in roads into the English language. The question is whether or not it is here to stay, a question which only time and number of users will be able to answer.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I like money. I like to buy stuff and experiences with money.
|
|
|
|
johnr
|
|
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2007, 11:19:40 AM » |
|
I could possibly see a case for using "hu" when the topic is non-gender specific. But if one is talking about a specific person, that actually has a gender, why use hu?
An example: Yesterday my colleague stole my lunch out of the fridge and ate it. I knew hu did it because hu had mayo on hus face and my sandwich had a lot of mayo on it. I asked hu if hu ate my sandwich, but hu denied it. Hu really pissed me off. Hu is a no good, lunch stealing son of a hu (oops, I mean, hu of a hu).
Now, if your colleague chair is a woman, why not just use "she". What's the point of using hu in this situation? I see this hu behavior all the time in these forums.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 11:21:55 AM by johnr »
|
Logged
|
"When I die, I hope it's in a committee meeting. The transition from life to death will be barely perceptible."
|
|
|
|
dr_dre
|
|
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2007, 11:34:42 AM » |
|
Well, sometimes it is interesting to consider issues in gender-neutral terms. If one imagines the easy replies will be "she stole your sandwich because women are unprofessional, lying tarts and slobs" and you want something more thoughtful, you might use the hu there.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
infopri
I guess I'm now a VERY
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 18,463
When all else fails, let us agree to disagree.
|
|
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2007, 11:35:12 AM » |
|
I could possibly see a case for using "hu" when the topic is non-gender specific. But if one is talking about a specific person, that actually has a gender, why use hu?
An example: Yesterday my colleague stole my lunch out of the fridge and ate it. I knew hu did it because hu had mayo on hus face and my sandwich had a lot of mayo on it. I asked hu if hu ate my sandwich, but hu denied it. Hu really pissed me off. Hu is a no good, lunch stealing son of a hu (oops, I mean, hu of a hu).
Now, if your colleague chair is a woman, why not just use "she". What's the point of using hu in this situation? I see this hu behavior all the time in these forums.
Actually, that example is when "hu" is most useful. This is not a "he or she" situation; your colleague has a specific gender, and you, as the poster, know what it is. (Before people jump on me: For this discussion, please, let's stick with male and female and avoid the issues associated with ambiguous or crossed gender.) It would be ridiculous in your example to say "He or she really pissed me off." But this is exactly the kind of anecdote for which we want to hide the subject's gender, as one tool in preserving our own and/or the colleague's anonymity. With "hu," we have no idea whether the colleague is a man or a woman and therefore have a harder time in recognizing this person if we should happen to know him or her or have heard the anecdote in RL. And before you ask, "What are the odds of someone recognizing the person and/or anecdote?" let me assure you, it's happened here on the fora, more than once. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Your experience is not universal. Words to live by.
MYOB. Y enseņen bien a sus hijos. |
|
|
|
trabb
|
|
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2007, 11:45:45 AM » |
|
People, people....there is one - and I submit only one - way that "hu" will ever become part of the English language, and that is if J. K. Rowling uses it in the next Harry Potter novel.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
concordancia
|
|
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2007, 11:46:51 AM » |
|
People, people....there is one - and I submit only one - way that "hu" will ever become part of the English language, and that is if J. K. Rowling uses it in the next Harry Potter novel.
I knew I should have written her that letter!! (Notice: no ambiguity, no confidentiality issues...) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I like money. I like to buy stuff and experiences with money.
|
|
|
|
draco
|
|
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2007, 11:53:39 AM » |
|
From Mirriam-Webster Online:
man:
"1b : the human race : HUMANKIND
Here it is again: hu-man. I don't see recall seeing a hu-woman In this history, you just can't get away from the gender bias of language. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
case_insensitive
Indefatigable Maverick Giver of Gold Stars and Ever-So Slightly
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 12,342
Life is an endurance race. Pace yourself.
|
|
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2007, 11:56:31 AM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Director of the CHE MYOB Professional Development Program,
An initiative of the CHE STFU Center for Professional Development.
Chairperson of the GAB CPE Series.
|
|
|
|
