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[alchemist]

Hello,  I know this is a recurring thread, but I can never find what the right posts when I search.

I've interviewed 4 times this year, and currently have 2 offers that have come through (woohoo!).  1 more may be coming, but it's impossible to know. Of these, both departments seemed great, however I liked position A a little more.  Position A also is in a more fun coastal (ie beach) city, and is in a state that has better reciprocity towards my wife's career in social work.  Position B is in an equal-sized city, but the personality of a large midwestern 'town' with good outdoors environment, but less exciting city/scenary (and no beach).  (Reading between lines: My spouse loves the beach, and is not really excited about town B).

When 9 month offers came through, Position B is 13.7% better than Position A (and will cover moving expenses).  It's almost 18% better if I summer teach (which I plan to do).  If you bring in cost of living, the discrepancy is even greater.  I've talked to Position A, but they cannot negotiate due to state guidlines.  However, HR person at A said that because of local area/student growth, raises have been greater than 5% 8 of the last 10 years.   Of course, if my wife has to take classes to update her career, that's a problem too.

I'm calling around to find relative course loads (all of my interview notes are at home) but I believe they are preety similar.  Is there anything I  can try to enhance my offer at position A (or that I should ask about)?  I had almost completely made up my mind before the formal offers, and now it's just screwing with my head!

[aristotelian]

I can sympathize, I have lived in both kinds of places.  There are great benefits of being on the coast, but the cost of living is also very tangible.  My wife is also a social worker, so we probably have similar concerns regarding her career vs. the cost of living.  If we had to make your choice, I have a feeling we would go with position A.  The fact that her career would benefit helps even out your salary cut.  In that case, the location becomes the tie-breaker.  Unless you are very materialistic, it sounds to me like you would be happier with position A.  Unless you are talking about New York or San Francisco, I think you could do fine on the combined salaries of a prof and a social worker.  Then again, if money is very important to you, or you are talking about one of those areas, then you should go with B. 

[zharkov]

I've talked to Position A, but they cannot negotiate due to state guidlines. 

That seems pretty odd, unless you will already be at the top of the salary curve. (Which also would be pretty odd.)  If "they" means HR, then you need to talk to someone else.  HR drones tend to be pretty clueless and will never in a million years buck the system to get someone an extra dime.  I would expect that the dean or provost has the authority to bring you in at a higher salary.  Assuming you are using the Getting to Yes approach, using your other offer should be good objective data to show what you are worth.

One of the "rules" of negotiating is to negotiate with someone who has the authority to negotiate.

[noof_]

I've talked to Position A, but they cannot negotiate due to state guidlines. 

That seems pretty odd, unless you will already be at the top of the salary curve. (Which also would be pretty odd.)  If "they" means HR, then you need to talk to someone else.  HR drones tend to be pretty clueless and will never in a million years buck the system to get someone an extra dime.  I would expect that the dean or provost has the authority to bring you in at a higher salary.  Assuming you are using the Getting to Yes approach, using your other offer should be good objective data to show what you are worth.

One of the "rules" of negotiating is to negotiate with someone who has the authority to negotiate.

I know of one state that has strict guidelines concerning salary. The don't/can't budge beyond a certain point.

[alchemist]

There are of course a million other complicating factors, but those are the main cases.  I beleive that my wife could work in position B, but she would have to take classes... I guess we should look into wether or not she could work in her field during that time.  I will also talk to the dean.

About money & materialism: I am not a materialsitic person.  However, we are young graduates, and acrued quite large college loans.  We are in a lot of debt and could use the money.  It's a slightly different situation, but I understand what you're saying aristo. 

Zharkov... which state are you referring too?

[icurhere2]

My last two public institutions and others - particularly those without merit pay - have either regulations determining salary offers per a peer-based formula or policies (formal or informal) due to concerns about salary compression. 

In full disclosure, I moved from a coastal institution (and living on an island) to another school 800 miles inland and have experienced a much greater than expected quality of life increase.

[spork]

You say there's about a 20 percent difference salary difference right off the bat, plus better cost of living at B.  So what does this amount to, in total?  25 percent?  30 percent?

Your wife needing certification in state B -- how many classes?  How persnickety are is the licensing agency?  Have her talk to someone who's been in that situation.  If it's just a few classes and bang, she has her license, this is not a consideration.

What kind of benefits come with A and B?  State institutions often have better, or at least lower cost, health insurance premiums.  What about retirement?

Here's what I would focus on:

- what's the real estate market like?  Is it feasible to buy a house in both A and B, or is A already out of reach?  If you do buy a house, given the area's employment demographics, is it likely you'll be able to sell it in 5 years at a profit should you change jobs?

- do you plan on having children?  This affects what kind of home you'll be buying.  What are the schools like in A and B?  If public schools suck and you'll probably send kids to private schools, you should factor tuition into the cost of living.

- which university is likely to give you the best opportunity to do what you enjoy with people you enjoy?

- the larger the cost of living difference between A and B, the more attractive B becomes.  You'll be saving money year after year because of it.

[spork]

As I think you can tell, I think in the long term and find beach/inland equally fun.

[zharkov]

Zharkov... which state are you referring too?

An east coast state.....   The dean had a worksheet that, based on experience and education, said that the minimum was, say 40K for me.  But then the dean added, we know we need to pay at least the mid 50s for this job.  The contract specified the minimum, but the powers that be have the authority to pay beyond that.

Here's something else to consider:  Given the market for your field as a whole, is A or B paying the average.  It may be that A pays the average and B is paying a premium.  Or that A is the cheapskate.  Using the AAUP dataset, does A come out as a cheapskate school?

[alchemist]

I think one difference between the two offers is that B is noting my graduate teaching experience, while A is not.  B is also giving me 'field experience' for research time, even though they are both teaching-dominant schools.

[zharkov]

I think one difference between the two offers is that B is noting my graduate teaching experience, while A is not.  B is also giving me 'field experience' for research time, even though they are both teaching-dominant schools.

Have you explained this to the dean or provost at school A? 

[icurhere2]

Have you explained this to the dean or provost at school A? 

Or have you discussed this with the chair / search committee point of contact to explain to the dean / provost?

[zharkov]

Have you explained this to the dean or provost at school A? 

Or have you discussed this with the chair / search committee point of contact to explain to the dean / provost?

Excellent point.  OP, since you have a pretty strong BATNA, you can be rather assertive with the people at school A, of course avoiding positional bargaining.  Tell them, "I'd love to work at school school but we have a problem. Can we work together to solve it?"

[alchemist]

So I've contacted the dean, who apparently has no say-so in this case. The HR department talks directly to the Pres, and together they design a package based on set criteria.  Any attempt to use extra criteria to change my package has not been successful.  (In case this isn't clear, this state has no teacher's union)

I've also been talking alot to my spouse, who appears completely uninterested in B.  Partially its the fear that her degree will fall through, partly it's the city.  So, I've talked the schools into one more week while she digs, and unless she finds something really juicy, we're probably going to fall back on A, money be damned.  All in all, it's a difficult situation.  And while I like A, starting at B would allow me to promote myself faster.  But I guess I shouldn't choose money/status over my wife's happiness. 

Thanks everybody.  I'll keep checking in over the next several days for some great other bits of advice, but it seems like a decision is already in the works.

[aristotelian]

I also feel that since I am the one who is forcing the move, I should defer to my spouse on the choice of location.  If both jobs would be good for me, I am comfortable with her choosing--as long as she understands the financial consequences (smaller house, fewer trips, etc.).  "Completely uninterested" is pretty bad.  I would not feel comfortable talking my spouse into that if I had another reasonable offer on the table.