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[dr_stones]

I only teach on Mondays, back-to-back sections of senior seminar.  Last night, for the second class, for no reason, I asked my class to start with a moment of prayer for the brothers and sisters they lost at VTech.

Public university, probably violated several policies, but I really could give a rat's ass.  All I know is that 30+ kids were sitting, thinking about the future, sure that what they did that day would not be their last acts on Earth.  And I also realized for the first time that I'd be willing to die to save one (or several) of my students.

[anthroid]

As long as you don't specify the god to whom prayers are being directed, I see no issue with this.

[helpful]

As long as you don't specify the god to whom prayers are being directed, I see no issue with this.

Or even prayers to other spirits, not Gods, are permitted.

[bibliothecula]

In understand the gesture was well-intentioned, but as an atheist I would have been offended if a professor ever asked me to pray in class. Perhaps a better alternative would have been to allow class discussion of the events for the first 5-10 minutes of class.

[helpful]

In understand the gesture was well-intentioned, but as an atheist I would have been offended if a professor ever asked me to pray in class. Perhaps a better alternative would have been to allow class discussion of the events for the first 5-10 minutes of class.

What do yu think of all the calling for prayer on the news shows yesterday?

[draco]

Call for a "Moment of Silence"

[merce]

In understand the gesture was well-intentioned, but as an atheist I would have been offended if a professor ever asked me to pray in class. Perhaps a better alternative would have been to allow class discussion of the events for the first 5-10 minutes of class.

What do yu think of all the calling for prayer on the news shows yesterday?

gag me with a spoon.

i cry.

i do what i want to do.
i certainly don't like people not of my faith telling ME to pray.
makes me ill.
It's soooo not their place.

[infopri]

Call for a "Moment of Silence"

This would have been a more appropriate way to put it, and it's the way I would phrased done it.

That said, as a non-Christian atheist who normally would have found the P word offensive (or at least discomfiting), I would have been more forgiving of its use than normal given yesterday's circumstances.

[bibliothecula]

A "moment of silence" would have been better than outright asking for prayer. I can take part in a "moment of silence" by thinking of the deceased or reflecting on life, but to ask anyone you don't know personally to "pray" is offensive. I cringe when politicians say that they "know the prayers of everyone will be with the victims," etc. Newscasters calling for or assuming prayer are way off base.

[helpful]

A "moment of silence" would have been better than outright asking for prayer. I can take part in a "moment of silence" by thinking of the deceased or reflecting on life, but to ask anyone you don't know personally to "pray" is offensive. I cringe when politicians say that they "know the prayers of everyone will be with the victims," etc. Newscasters calling for or assuming prayer are way off base.

Yes, CNN was doing that all day yesterday. So inappropriate.

[catnip]

My current uni is sending information to faculty about how to be of assistance to our students in the classroom. This included a list of student testimonials about what they found helpful and meaningful after 9/11. It was useful to get this guide-of-sorts.

A Moment of Silence is wholly appropriate, and I think that is sometimes helpful to further connect with the diverse spiritual beliefs of students to acknowledge their differences and invite them to use that Moment of Silence in what ever way is most meaningful to them in this time.

Having said that, I found myself completely numb around 9/11 with absolutley no support for the faculty around this event. I personally didn't know how to acknowledge what had happened with students without completely falling apart. I was one of the many "victims" of the 24/7 video coverage on all stations. Strangely, I wonder if coping at work during that time, or at least trying to cope at that time, has given us all more and varied tools to be of service to our students now.

[husqvarna]

drstones, thanks for sharing about this.

I don't mean to dismiss anyone else's concerns, but I do have my own concerns about claims of "offensive" language.

Certainly we should not offend those of other faiths.  This is why prayer should not be allowed in public settings the way that you approached it with your class.  That being said, I think we have taken our understanding of what is offensive, and how that affects public discourse, way too far.

A society of free speech and thought will by nature offend some.  When offense goes too far, restrictions are set in place- a recent example is Don Imus, who's firing is a perfect example of offensive free speech being censored by those who have the power to censor it.  But offense in itself should not be a reason to immediately pursue extreme disciplinary action.  Students are offended everyday by what they hear and say in normal class discussions, and I think we would all agree that this is part of a good education.  drstones, I think what you did would not be appropriate on a regular basis, and you made it clear in your initial post that you think the same thing.  But for a one-time occurence (when it's not "established")... after 9/11, after the VTech shootings, etc.... I do not see a problem with this, even if it may offend some.  No one is being compelled to do anything, and there is no more pressure put in the students by your action, at least no more than might arise in regular class discussion about religious issues or when an atheist is teaching religious students. 

Personally I don't even buy the argument that such a request is offensive at all... I can understand in certain cases how someone might feel marginalized, but in general I think that's just a joke.  This is my personal opinion, though, and I'm not trying to tell any offended party that they don't know what they're talking about.  If anything I think that those who are offended need to think longer and harder about what it means to live in a free society, where different views will inevitably interact.  I think more open-mindedness might help to lessen offense at what was obviously NOT a malicious, but a caring and concerned, act.

[bibliothecula]

Personally I don't even buy the argument that such a request is offensive at all... I can understand in certain cases how someone might feel marginalized, but in general I think that's just a joke.  This is my personal opinion, though, and I'm not trying to tell any offended party that they don't know what they're talking about.  If anything I think that those who are offended need to think longer and harder about what it means to live in a free society, where different views will inevitably interact.  I think more open-mindedness might help to lessen offense at what was obviously NOT a malicious, but a caring and concerned, act.

I do not want to attack drstones, as he/she was clearly trying to reach out to students in a sympathetic and decidedly not malicious manner. But I do emphatically believe that what he/she said and did was an inappropriate choice of words/actions.

As for hvernon not believing that such an incident can be offensive, I would argue that what is offensive is enormously variable among people, especially when it comes to religious values. Were I a student in drstones' class, I would have been personally offended that someone was trying to impart his/her gestures of believe on me. As someone watching the news, I find it offensive that reporters would so blindly assume that their audiences are comprised exclusively of individuals who believe in any kind of religion and who pray.

I am all for people expressing themselves as they see fit--as individuals. If you want to pray, go ahead. But don't do it on my time, ask me to join in with you, or assume that prayer is part of my belief structure (or lack thereof). In situations in which you are not on very familiar terms with those around you, the best policy is to never assume anything about anyone's personal opinions.

[husqvarna]

As for hvernon not believing that such an incident can be offensive, I would argue that what is offensive is enormously variable among people, especially when it comes to religious values. Were I a student in drstones' class, I would have been personally offended that someone was trying to impart his/her gestures of believe on me. As someone watching the news, I find it offensive that reporters would so blindly assume that their audiences are comprised exclusively of individuals who believe in any kind of religion and who pray.

I am all for people expressing themselves as they see fit--as individuals. If you want to pray, go ahead. But don't do it on my time, ask me to join in with you, or assume that prayer is part of my belief structure (or lack thereof). In situations in which you are not on very familiar terms with those around you, the best policy is to never assume anything about anyone's personal opinions.

-Although I started saying that I don't buy the argument that this was offensive, I went on to explain cases where it could very well be offensive, and what I thought about those cases.

-There's no sign on CNN or in drstones' class that anyone is assuming anything about the beliefs of their audience.

-I don't know what you mean by "imparting his/her gestures of belief on me"... it almost looks like you wrote "enforcing" and deleted it for "imparting".  In any case, all that drstones did was ask for a moment of prayer... he didn't "impart" a gesture- his or anyone else's- he did set aside a time during class for gestures to occur, gestures that he specified but which could understandably be interpreted more broadly as "reflection" or "meditation" in the same way that those who specifically pray during a moment of silence take a liberty of interpretation when doing so.

I think your assumptions about drstones' assumptions are a perfect example about what I'm talking about when I say that people go way too far with this and interpret things way too critically.

[goingcrazy]

Drstones did not say that anyone who does not pray will fail the class. Perhaps the choice of words was not the best but the intent was to help the students deal with an issue at hand. Why would anyone be "offended" by that? If you don't pray, then don;t pray. I'm sure that Drstones was not FORCING  everyone to pray.

Now we are going to be angry about newspeople saying, "Our prayers are with the families?" If they pray then they should be allowed to say what they want. Goodness! Talk about censorship!