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[lostinspace]

Personally, I'm a (very long term) expat here, and don't get the Benny Hill thing either, although I do finally enjoy cricket.
But they do happen here. There was a terrible incident in a town called Dunblane, just north of Stirling, between Edinburgh and Glasgow. There have also been some awful incidents in more recent years in Birmingham, Nottingham and London. My guess is that these mostly don't make the US news the way US incidents make the UK news. It's an opportunity in the European press to look at the Crazy Americans. You wouldn't believe the questions/comments I get after something like this happens.

[spork]

The latest tidbit of information to be released, via the New York Times:

"Mr. Cho’s sullen and aggressive behavior culminated in an unsuccessful effort by the campus police to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution in December [2005] . . . For all the interventions by the police and faculty members, Mr. Cho was allowed to remain on campus and live with other students . . . Despite Mr. Cho’s time in the mental health system, when an English professor was disturbed by his writings last fall and contacted the associate dean of students, the dean told the professor that there was no record of any problems and that nothing could be done . . ."

[slac_vap]

The latest tidbit of information to be released, via the New York Times:

"Mr. Cho’s sullen and aggressive behavior culminated in an unsuccessful effort by the campus police to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution in December [2005] . . . For all the interventions by the police and faculty members, Mr. Cho was allowed to remain on campus and live with other students . . . Despite Mr. Cho’s time in the mental health system, when an English professor was disturbed by his writings last fall and contacted the associate dean of students, the dean told the professor that there was no record of any problems and that nothing could be done . . ."

If the campus police were unable to have him committed, then that implies that when the had him evaluated by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, that professional did not believe that his symptoms were severe enough at that time to warrant involuntary commitment.  From my own observations -so take them or leave them- law enforcement officers generally have a lower tolerance for unacceptable behavior than do clinical psychologists and psychiatrists.

Furthermore, law enforcement officers are typically more in favor of attempting to use psychiatric hospitalization as a deterrent to crime even when the potential committee is not suffering from a treatable mental illness, but rather is just a bad person.

Even if he had been committed, that probably wouldn't have "fixed" him.  He would have been held for up to 72 hours, evaluated, started on a treatment regimen, then released to the care of outpatient mental health, which he probably wouldn't have followed up on.  Plus, as someone else mentioned, there really is no known effective treatment for Antisocial Personality Disorder, and right now we know of no specific psychiatric symptoms that would point to any other psychiatric diagnosis.

And, of course, even if he had been committed in the past, that is no reason to assume that he would be externally violent in the future.  Most people who have an involuntary commitment in their history never kill anyone. 

[case_insensitive]

The latest tidbit of information to be released, via the New York Times:

"Mr. Cho’s sullen and aggressive behavior culminated in an unsuccessful effort by the campus police to have him involuntarily committed to a mental institution in December [2005] . . . For all the interventions by the police and faculty members, Mr. Cho was allowed to remain on campus and live with other students . . . Despite Mr. Cho’s time in the mental health system, when an English professor was disturbed by his writings last fall and contacted the associate dean of students, the dean told the professor that there was no record of any problems and that nothing could be done . . ."

If the campus police were unable to have him committed, then that implies that when the had him evaluated by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, that professional did not believe that his symptoms were severe enough at that time to warrant involuntary commitment.  From my own observations -so take them or leave them- law enforcement officers generally have a lower tolerance for unacceptable behavior than do clinical psychologists and psychiatrists.

The way I heard it explained today is that the mental health workers (in 2005) believed Cho was an imminent threat to himself or others, but that the judge (who gets the final say) saw it differently and ruled for out-patient care rather than (temporary?) commital.

This doesn't surprise me given my family's experience in another state with a deranged ex of one of my siblings.  Until he actually hurt someone he couldn't be made to go to the hospital, even temporarily. He could chose to go, but couldn't be forced since he hadn't actually hurt anyone (just 100s of threats).  These laws vary widely by state.

[slac_vap]

The process in Virginia is two-fold: the first step is formal petition with temporary commitment (a mental health worker determines the patient meets criteria for involuntary commitment, and detains the patient until a hearing takes place), then secondly a hearing is held where the judge rules on the appropriateness of formal commitment.  I have to admit that I assumed this process broke down at the petition stage, because never have I heard of a petition being rejected by a judge.  If it is indeed the case that the judge trumped the clinical judgment of the mental health workers, then I stand corrected.

Still, a commitment two years ago would likely have done little to impact his last act.

[salomestrauss]

First of all, as a student who has struggled with bipolar disorder (type II), I'd like to thank faculty like prytania3 and obscure for defending my right to attend my university. I've wanted to be an academic my whole life, I love being a student, and I can't imagine how I would have felt if I had been denied the right to pursue my passion for ideas simply because I took a term off for depression and occasionally am slightly hypomanic. Like most people who are defined as mentally ill, I am not a danger to myself or others. Like most students who aspire to be part of academe, I think (hope!) I have a contribution to make to my chosen field someday. Would you deny me this simply because of a genetic background and a disease that I can't control?

As far as  the comment that: "England seems far more tolerant of odd behavior" goes, I'd have to say it rings true for me. My time in the UK was so much more pleasant, and felt so much more like home, than my whole life in America. I'm in the process of writing a novel, and so sometimes look odd when working with sentences out loud, and Americans have, in general, been very intolerant of my verbal quirks. Here at Ivy U (with some very notable exceptions), I'm "quirky" or "odd" for getting excited about ideas outside of class. When I visited Perfect Grad Programme across the pond, the entire atmosphere was different. The average Tube passenger in London was far kinder to me (and a better conversationalist!) than most undergrads at my supposedly elite university. The check-out clerks at Marks & Spencer didn't even yell at me when I absent-mindedly handed them my health insurance card instead of a £5 note. We then had a fantastic chat about 13th-18th century English hedge mazes! In my entire experience in America, I've just been "that weird girl who talks a lot." In the UK, I was, for once, just treated like a person, with decency and civility  that I have not come to expect here.

so huzzah for London-- which to me did not seem to have the endemic culture of violence and fear that we do here in the dear old States,

Salome

counting down the days until I can get UK citizenship!

[latis]

Two US government reports on school shooters conclude that there is no profile of a school shooter.

http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf
The Final Report and Findings of the Safe School Initiative:  Implications for the Prevention of School attacks in the United States
 
"There is no accurate or useful 'profile' of students who engaged in targeted school violence."


http://www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf

The School Shooter:  A Threat Assessment Perspective

"After a violent incident has taken place, retracing an offender's past and identifying clues that in retrospect could have been signs of danger can yield significant, useful information. However, even clues that appear to help interpret past events should not be taken as predictors of similar events in the future. At this time, there is no research that has identified traits and characteristics that can reliably distinguish school shooters from other students."


From what I have noticed, the shooters tend to be male.  I would like to teach at a women’s college.

[spork]

Excellent NY Times story on Cho:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

I reiterate that I believe Cho should not have been permitted to continue as a student at Virginia Tech.

[spork]

Also:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22norris.html?pagewanted=1