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[samspade]

I should have added, I am not trying to troll here. And I am sure that his parents are suffering intense grief as well and I am not trying to minimize or diminish it. But as a parent, I also believe we have our responsibilities on for the values we install in our children and their actions do reflect upon us. I keep coming off colder than I intend to, and this is not about "values" in the political sense. I just wonder that if his professors could see clear signs that he was disturbed, how his parents missed it.

[illuminata]

One possiblity is that his parents have their own problems. I of course, am not saying they DO, but it is a possibility. Also, Cho was over 18, meaning that without his signed consent, no one on campus could tell his parents anything.

[bio_prof_]

I am posting under a different moniker than usual...
I work at Tech and so does Spouse Cuajada.
I also teach at another local school, and have class in 20 minutes. I'm completely unprepared.

I am without words.

But the sympathy from here and all over the world is so important. Thank you for sending it.

Oh my God. I am so sorry.
For what its worth, no one will be preapred for class today.

Be ever so so gentle with yourself.

[anthroid]

I agree.  We don't know any details of his childhood and we cannot, by default, assume this parents knew anything about his ... condition, for lack of a better word. If we are going to jump to conclusions like this, we'll have to similarly blame every parent of every criminal who ever lived.  Obviously, that's ridiculous.

No, it is neither ridiculous nor obvious.

Parents absolutely bear responsibility for their children's character good OR bad.  They don't bear total responsibillity, but to argue that it is "ridiculous" to look at how someone was reared is, well, "ridiculous."  After a certain point, parents have to shrug their shoulders and say, "well, I did my best."  But parenting and family life absolutely are connected with our behavior.

[j_source]

I should have added, I am not trying to troll here. And I am sure that his parents are suffering intense grief as well and I am not trying to minimize or diminish it. But as a parent, I also believe we have our responsibilities on for the values we install in our children and their actions do reflect upon us. I keep coming off colder than I intend to, and this is not about "values" in the political sense. I just wonder that if his professors could see clear signs that he was disturbed, how his parents missed it.

According to NPR a few minutes ago, his parents didn't miss it.  They were so concerned about his depression and possibly being suicidal they had him placed (I don't know if it was voluntary or not) in an inpatient mental institution at some point.

Having watched friends deal with an adult child with profound and intractable mental illness, I have enormous sympathy for his parents.  Since he was an adult, there is legally very little anyone can do to coerce treatment unless he is clearly a danger to himself and others.  Any psychiatrist or psychologist will tell you that most people don't act on their life-threatening ideation.  Some do - as in this case - but most  people who struggle with depression and other psychological issues never harm anyone, including themselves.  Suicide is the rare exception.  Murder is even more rare.

[illuminata]

FWIW, here is a posting from one of the mental health professions' listserves I belong to. If you find it helpful, feel free to cut and paste at will. The OP is a psychologist at James Madison U.

After the Shooting:

How You Can Help

 

All of us have been deeply affected by the tragic events that have taken place at Virginia Tech.  We have been shocked by the scenes of violence and our sense of security has been shaken.  We worry about how the survivors are doing as they deal with heartache, grief and anguish.  Please keep in mind that you do not have to be in Blacksburg to help during this painful time.  No matter where you are, you can make a difference. Here are just a few of the ways that you can help:

 

Reach Out.

Now is the time that you can reach out to others. Especially if you know people who have a connection to Virginia Tech, you have an opportunity to comfort, reassure and console. If they live near you, then you can lend an empathic ear to their concerns. If they are far away, you can give them a telephone call, send an email or write a card.  However you connect, you can offer emotional support to those who have been affected by the recent horrific event. You may be worried that you don?t know what to say, but don?t let that stop you from reaching out. There are no magic words or slogans, but you can make a difference by being there for others. They may forget your exact words, but they will remember your presence and compassion.

 
Take Heart.
You have witnessed the violence and pain through the media. Be sure to also notice the many stories of resilience and sacrifice.  Let yourself be inspired by the courage of those who risked their own lives to protect others.  Allow yourself to be encouraged by the dedication of security officers and emergency medical teams who responded so unselfishly.  Be touched by the many gestures of support that parents, teachers and friends have offered.  It?s essential that you acknowledge the heartache and suffering, but don?t lose heart about the future.
 

Make Meaning.
The media have shown you a shocking story of random acts of violence of heartbreaking proportions. There is neither a simple nor logical explanation of the tragedy; however you can bring meaning by being a part of the healing process. You can acknowledge the depth of pain and offer your own random acts of kindness to help others to heal and be comforted.  The senseless actions of one troubled individual have wreaked havoc and confusion. Your actions can help reaffirm our collective sense of meaning, trust and wellbeing in life.
 

Give Thanks.
During this painful time, it is especially important to give thanks to those who bring safety and security to your life.  Of course, you have shown your appreciation to your friends and family for their kind touches.  And you can make a deliberate effort to take every opportunity to thank such people as security personnel who work to protect our community, responders who help us survive medical emergencies, educators who have dedicated their lives to mentoring youth, and countless people who bring richness and joy to our lives.
 

Give Blood.
Tragically, blood has been shed and you can donate life-giving blood as one concrete and important act of healing. Virtually all of us will face a time of great vulnerability in which we will need blood. And that time is all too often unexpected. To find out where you can donate, visit www.givelife.org or call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE (1-800-448-3543).

Make a Donation.
One fast and practical way to make a positive difference is to contribute to local organizations that are dedicated to reduce all forms of violence in your community. Domestic violence shelters, organizations preventing child abuse, conflict mediation are just a few examples.  You can donate your time, money and needed materials that support efforts to bring safety, peace and security to individuals and families.

[dark_globe]

If you had been there and had access to a gun, would you have shot Cho and saved yourself and perhaps 30 other people?  Or would you have proclaimed your pacifistic beliefs and let him slaughter you and everyone else?

I don't think pacifism has anything to do with the right of self-defense.

Anyway, in such a situation, with an gun in my hand, I don't know if I would have the guts to shoot another human being.

In the real world, a professor would never have access to a gun in such a situation; trying to prove a point with an impossible hypothetical situation is rather unconvincing.

The bottom line is, no one really knows what they would do in such a situation. As I said in another thread, it's oh so easy to say "I'd shoot him down!" Until the situation presents itself, one really can't answer that question.

[much_metta]

Finally, you may prefer death to your own survival or the survival of loved ones or others around you, but I think most people (not just Americans), are willing to kill if that's the only option.  As an academic exercise, I'd be interested in knowing this:  If you had been there and had access to a gun, would you have shot Cho and saved yourself and perhaps 30 other people?  Or would you have proclaimed your pacifistic beliefs and let him slaughter you and everyone else?

Pacifism does not preclude positive action, though that is a common misconception and part of a host of negative stereotypes about pacifists.  Just because one does not act in violence does not mean one does not act.  I'm sick of people who know nothing about pacifism saying things like "proclaimed your pacifistic beliefs and let him slaughter you and everyone else."  This implies that to be a pacifist, the ONLY option in that situation would be to stand still and say, "I'm a pacifist.  Please just go ahead and shoot us."  BS.  This is NOT what pacifism is.  In a situation like that, a pacifist would be the first to get between the gunman and the class.  That is nonviolent resistance.  That is pacifism.  We will not bring any more violence into this already violent world, but we will NOT stand idly by and let others act in violence either.  Please stop painting us with that brush. 

[datawoman]

illuminata

Thank you.  Life goes on.  I have to give talks and speeches.  I have copied your info into my notebook to add to what I will have to say about Virginia Tech this weekend and the next.  Again, thank you.

[thisisanewname]

How much do universities spend on "diversity" programs every year?  How much do they spend on safety (and training for incidents like this)?

Which do we value more - safety or diversity?

For crying out loud. Of all the discussions to have, now, while the shots are still echoing, you want to steer the topic to the merits of diversity? Shame.

Since when are safety and diversity mutually exclusive?
And how incredibly tasteless to start a diversity argument while the bodies aren't even buried.

[thisisanewname]

I don't think Longwood is contributing to the discussion by callng the student "troubled.' If all of his professors referred to him as troubled it's no wonder that the student thought of himself as troubled. Blaming an incident like this on the student, rather than pausing to consider the college culture, is also problematic. Why was the guy a visiting foreign male?

I'm sorry, what in the world does this mean?

[tolerantly]

I should have added, I am not trying to troll here. And I am sure that his parents are suffering intense grief as well and I am not trying to minimize or diminish it. But as a parent, I also believe we have our responsibilities on for the values we install in our children and their actions do reflect upon us. I keep coming off colder than I intend to, and this is not about "values" in the political sense. I just wonder that if his professors could see clear signs that he was disturbed, how his parents missed it.

According to NPR a few minutes ago, his parents didn't miss it.  They were so concerned about his depression and possibly being suicidal they had him placed (I don't know if it was voluntary or not) in an inpatient mental institution at some point.

Having watched friends deal with an adult child with profound and intractable mental illness, I have enormous sympathy for his parents.  Since he was an adult, there is legally very little anyone can do to coerce treatment unless he is clearly a danger to himself and others.  Any psychiatrist or psychologist will tell you that most people don't act on their life-threatening ideation.  Some do - as in this case - but most  people who struggle with depression and other psychological issues never harm anyone, including themselves.  Suicide is the rare exception.  Murder is even more rare.

What j_source said.
 
There is likely nothing they could have done.  You have to be pretty damn sick before an inpatient clinic will take you.  When a child is severely mentally ill, you're not only SOL as regards the child's behavior, but you're likely to be judged and blamed by complete strangers who have no idea what kind of hell you live in, and how you may have wrung yourself out trying to keep both the kid and other people safe.  Watch for more of this wrt spouses as more military families deal with vets coming home with TBI.
 
This guy clearly had very serious problems.  Unless he grew up inside some hideous skull-eating cult, it's unlikely his parents' values had anything to do with the shooting. 

In this country, we very seldom force mental-health treatment on anyone, and even where it's warranted, the services are frequently not available.  The model  in non-forcibly-committed mental health is to let the patient guide his own treatment, even when he's clearly irrational, unless he poses an immediate danger to himself or others, generally by making specific threats with actual plans behind them.  In my experience, mental healthcare providers don't communicate with each other or the "physical healthcare" docs, and often to preserve privacy they simply don't write much down in the first place.  My guess is that unless the parents were jumping around waving flags, VT administrators had no idea they had a seriously unstable young man on their hands until someone said something about his writing, and no one knew how long the problems had been going on. 
 
It seems to me the VT victims were in part victims of incoherent law regarding mental illness.  There is a push back against liberalization -- led mainly by physicians whose hands are tied and families with severely mentally ill children --  but the question is how to force treatment or institutionalization before serious trouble happens without violating rights.

[helpful]

Funny, I wonder what the pro gun people over on the gun control thread think about the rights of the mentally ill. Are they totally libertarian about all rights, or just some?

[high_energy_photons]

The level of anxiety has certainly risen on campuses.  I know of at least one college that was evacuated earlier this week due to their own threat of an incident.  Safety personnel are on high alerts, and I don't doubt there will be many times that people will take advantage to pull pranks or cause havoc.

I am saddened by what has happened, and I hope it does not happen again.  Unfortunately, I fear it will.  Not because we won't try to prevent it or learn from it, but because some things are beyond our power to stop.

On a more practical note: Wherever I have taught, I always determined how my students could escape in an emergency, and the methods I could use to help them escape.  I learned how to lock my classroom doors as quickly as possible (since they all open out due to fire code), or if there was a secondary door, how to lock that door.  I've seen angry students, and I've taught in scary places, and there are many different ways to run.

These are also good plans for any type of emergency, and I suggest developing a plan, particularly if your administration is not forcing you to.  If you have a plan in mind when an emergency occurs, you are much more likely to actually act in a way that you want instead of freezing.  Trust me, I've had to handle small scale emergencies that could have escalated without a good plan in mind, and the plan helped keep me from panicking (science field- lots of things can go wrong).  There are some things that you won't be able to handle, but if you have a plan, you may be able help a little.

I hope you don't find me cold about this entire situation.  I cried over it, but the only thing that really helps me is thinking about ways that I could help others react in an emergency.  I've seen students injured, and it is a terrible thing for any teaching professional.  You always think of ways you could have prevented it, and when you do prevent it from happening, you know you've kept them safe, just that once.  As a science teacher, I've come to grips with issues of safety more than once, but I think we all have to think about the dangers of the world and how they can interact with the classroom.

[datawoman]

By now you have probably all seen what the killer did in the lost 2 hours.  He was making a multimedia document he mailed in an express overnight letter through the post office to NBC  (www.msnbc.com). 

Then he went on killing.......strange it fills in that odd piece for me of the lost two hours.  It damns the University in a way that is unexpected.  My God, what will happen to them???  My heart goes out to them even more. 

It turns out I had a very close Professor friend at the University who teaches in the building where the rampage was but not on Mon-Wed.  He teaches Tues-Thurs.  He did not lose any students but did lose some professor friends.  He is still in shock.  As we all are.  Hope this helps.  Sorry for the wanderings.