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[old_school]

Yes, I get the sarcasm. I guess I'm saying the sarcasm gets so directly to the point that I want to cry.

oh, ok - and I agree.

The whole sitaution is messing me up today.

I think most of us are struggling with this in one way or the other. Very sad.

[case_insensitive]

The whole sitaution is messing me up today.

I think most of us are struggling with this in one way or the other. Very sad.

Yup.

*hug*

[bio_prof_]

Thanks for the hug!
I really need it. The only thing that has made me laugh today is CBL's thread about wahsers and arse-washing toilets. I usually laugh hundreds of times a day.

:*(

[prof_viola]

Hey bio_prof:  virtual hug to you.

I guess there's no way that the Virginia Tech tragedy can do other than spark debates about the second amendment, campus security, our obligations in assessing students' stability, and so on.  I just wish we could let the dust settle long enough to get all the facts that will be made available and then think about them.  Like a number of others, I guess I need time to absorb the enormity of this and to pray for those killed, wounded, and their families and friends before I could begin any remotely intelligent debate.  God, how I hope we don't end up with campuses around the country in a state of lockdown.  So much has been lost, and, I'm afraid, will be lost through this terrible thing.  

[bio_prof_]

Hey bio_prof:  virtual hug to you.

:)

[case_insensitive]

bio_prof,

I got word a bit ago from a former professor who was teaching in Norris.  They heard the gunfire and dove into a faculty office and barricaded the door until the SWAT team came.  I cannot even imagine going through this in our ordinary, usually unexciting and safe, workplace. :o( I'm so glad he's ok.

prof_viola,

that's a nice list of disparate topics we need to address in the future, for sure.  we talk about safety here, but never considered this sort of thing as very likely, of course.  we give lip service to counseling and such, but since most of us don't often notice students who seem to need it, we are relatively unaware.  so, clearly we need to do some thinking and/or rethinking on these things as a group and specifically on our individual campuses.  as to lockdown, i just don't think it's possible on most campuses.  we have to come up with more possible reactions than that, for sure.

*hugs to all*

[history_grrrl]

This whole thing is so shocking and tragic, in so many ways. So very, very sad.

I just checked my (Canadian) university's website. I'm very proud to see that our president has sent condolences to Virginia Tech and that there will be a memorial service later this week "to promote a culture of non-violence on campus." I know this is PR-ish stuff, but it's at times like this that I truly love where I teach. This makes me feel part of a larger community, and that seems very important right now.

[helpful]

While Bush is an idiot and the worst president we've had in 150 years, he's not responsible for this.  His comment about the right to bear arms in this context was, however,  extraordinarily ill conceived and distasteful. 

well said.

There is a wonderful expression for Mr. Bush. 'Mouth open....words jump out'

[wiseinc]

My humble, sincere and heartfelt prayers are with all of you. May God bless you all. May you be lifted up. The Lord God (Jehovah) is a balm in Gilead to all those who morn. Praying for your comfort. Interceding for (your) peace.

 

[newhire06]

I know there's a separate forum on gun control--this post isn't intended to be an argument about specific national policies, but rather an expression of disgust about the arguments that keep cropping up everywhere about "if only people were allowed to have guns in those classes..."

I just don't understand how anybody who has ever actually been in a classroom can even begin to make this argument. Seriously. An earlier poster had a more lighthearted look at this, considering the "benefits" of cutting down on plagiarism and grade disputes. I don't mean to argue with that post--it's spot on in its derision and jokes about armed colleagues--but it just takes my breath away that people would entertain such a thing in a more serious manner. I've seen it all over tv and blogs and The Chronicle website, the one place that I wouid expect to hear strong assertions that weapons have no place in educational environments, and that the Va Tech story validates that more than anything. 

As if there aren't enough sources of tension between teachers and students. Placing weapons in the hands of professors is awful because it puts an unwarranted balance of power on the side of those who teach. I'm perfectly fine with the existing balance, where those of us who have the authority to grade student work is rooted in our own expertise and ability to pass on that expertise through teaching. That is the only balance of power that should exist. Putting guns in the hands of students means that they would have physical power over the people who rely on the fact that their authority will be upheld because of their knowledge. No student should be able to coerce his or her teacher with threats of violence. And weapons are threats, implict and explicit. And of course, students who know their professors or peers may be carrying weapons can never truly have freedom of expression. I would think such arguments didn't need to be made, and certainly not here.

That anybody would take the idea of having more guns in the classroom seriously absolutely blows my mind and depresses me beyond anything I've experienced since Katrina.

An MSNBC anchoress just said that "the shooter could have been prevented if somebody in the room was packing heat." Good lord! Never mind how ridiculous it is that cop-movie lingo just got used about an educational environment...But what are the odds in any room that somebody was actually in a position to fire on a shooter? It would require so many unlikely prospects--that the other weapon holder had a good shot, that he or she could fire before getting fired on, and most importantly, that he or she had no problem taking somebody's life.

I suppose most people who want to carry guns have already decided that they would be willing to use them against somebody who had killed other people. But this is a major decision, even if we concede that it's better to be a killer oneself than allow innocent people be killed.  The completely idiotic idea about bringing guns into the classroom assumes, among many other stupid wrong things, that everybody would WANT to carry a weapon.

Allowing people to carry concealed weapons does not mean that professors or students actually would do so, and the lack of systematic implentation of such a stupid idea in and of itself invalidates the claim that it would make things safer.

I think about myself walking in to teach each morning, and here's what I think of: I often forget my watch and other items I actually need everyday; I'm usually carrying a bunch of stuff; I often teach in clothes that don't have pockets. when I taught in the hot south, my students frequently wore shorts and tank tops with no pockets. Given each of these things, I wonder: Which of us is seriously going to have a weapon at the ready if an unstable person comes in? And which of us is going to be ready if an unstable person is in the class to begin with?

Again, even if somebody truly believes that students and teachers are willing to fire back (and truth be told, I'm personally pretty sure I'd rather be shot than kill somebody), where, logistically and practically, are we going to have such weapons? Do I bring it with me as I hook up my laptop to the projector? Do I carry it in the hand that's not writing on the board? I'd love to hear one of these gun advocates explain how this security measure would work in practice. Will we get standard issue holsters at new faculty orientation? Again, I don't see how anybody who works in higher ed could possibly suggest something so completely impractical and dangerous.

As for the poster with the "plausible fact" crap that the Chronicle published in an article this morning, really, does he or she know what those two words mean? Plausible does not equal fact--I can't believe an academic would use that phrase. And what you suggest in your post is perhaps plausible, but I don't see how it's likely or probably or, most importantly, remotely related to sound educational practice.

[sikora]

The news has just suggested that perhaps profs should carry guns to protect themselves.


OMG


Me with a gun is such a bad idea.

Some of my colleagues with guns. NO WAY!

Me, too. I'm a pacifist, and will die before firing a weapon at another person.

I'm also experienced with weapons from my time in the military.  I was a horrible shot, no matter how much extra time I spent on the range practicing.  I needed to hit 19 out of 50 targets to barely pass, and I never did better than 20.

Moreover, I've been so mad at students I've thought "I'd like to shoot you."

Guns + me, bad idea.

btw, my pacifism is based in religion

Obscure, but still the first dog in space

[iomhaigh]

Perhaps I'm just too crass of a human being, but I always find myself fascinated with our collective attempts to make sense of the senseless when grieving over unpredictable horrific events.  Arming the faculty... come on. 

There's just no way to prevent such atrocities.  We're humans.  We are not perfect.  We cannot raise perfect children or students. (And, frankly, trying to do so puts way too much pressure on them.)  We get hurt by others; we hurt ourselves; we hurt the ones we love.  Sure, most of us do not kill the others in our lives, but none of us will ever be sufficiently omniscient to protect our loved ones from situations like this. 

It is depressing to have our illusions of safety and order removed.  All the laws in the world aren't going to make us safe.  Even my normally optimistic peace-love-and-happiness Marx-had-some-good-ideas self doesn't truly believe that if everyone is loved and raised well and supported that we can prevent someone from wanting to hurt another person. 

Our lives -- the very foundations of our existence -- are far too imperfect. 

[zarathustra]

Yeah, no one should be giving me a gun.  I'm afraid I'd use it.

[sikora]

My humble, sincere and heartfelt prayers are with all of you. May God bless you all. May you be lifted up. The Lord God (Jehovah) is a balm in Gilead to all those who morn. Praying for your comfort. Interceding for (your) peace.

 

Yes, that is what we all need, that balm in Gilead.  There is so much longing, sorrow, and hope in the idea of a balm in Gilead.  And I pray, to whom ever will listen, that those among us (and I mean all of us) who are directly wounded in whatever way by this tragedy, that the healing balm will come, and the rest of us will be taught to bring that balm.

Just after the shootings in the Amish school in PA last fall, I learned an Amish expression.  "Sometimes God calms the storm.  Sometimes God lets the storm rage and calms the child."

Peace is underrated.  I pray for peace, even for Cho.  Even for GWB.  Imagine, if the balm reached him...

Obscure, but still the first dog in space

[sikora]

Perhaps I'm just too crass of a human being, but I always find myself fascinated with our collective attempts to make sense of the senseless when grieving over unpredictable horrific events.  Arming the faculty... come on. 

There's just no way to prevent such atrocities.  We're humans.  We are not perfect.  We cannot raise perfect children or students. (And, frankly, trying to do so puts way too much pressure on them.)  We get hurt by others; we hurt ourselves; we hurt the ones we love.  Sure, most of us do not kill the others in our lives, but none of us will ever be sufficiently omniscient to protect our loved ones from situations like this. 

It is depressing to have our illusions of safety and order removed.  All the laws in the world aren't going to make us safe.  Even my normally optimistic peace-love-and-happiness Marx-had-some-good-ideas self doesn't truly believe that if everyone is loved and raised well and supported that we can prevent someone from wanting to hurt another person. 

Our lives -- the very foundations of our existence -- are far too imperfect.