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[red_queen]

How much do universities spend on "diversity" programs every year?  How much do they spend on safety (and training for incidents like this)?

Which do we value more - safety or diversity?

For crying out loud. Of all the discussions to have, now, while the shots are still echoing, you want to steer the topic to the merits of diversity? Shame.

[sweetwarrior]

I am filled with such sorrow.
In Memorium to all who lost their lives. My heart goes out to eveyone at VT.

[spork]

If universities cared about students, it would invest more in the student affairs resources - students need more staff to work with them.  This situation might have been prevented if there were more student affairs staff. 

How much do universities spend on "diversity" programs every year?  How much do they spend on safety (and training for incidents like this)?

Which do we value more - safety or diversity?

Welcome back wow, or anon, or whichever dimwit you are.  Your post is illogical; in the first paragraph you claim a need for more spending on non-academic staff, while in the second, you claim there is too much spending on non-academic staff.

The amount universities spend on security and disaster preparedness is miniscule compared to the amount spent on intercollegiate athletics, but as long as parents can be convinced that a university will simultaneously coddle and entertain Buffy and Jimbo, parents will be willing to shell out money for tuition.  The killings at Virginia Tech may wake some parents and students up to the fact that random acts of violence sometimes happen and it is the individual's responsibility, not that of an organization, to do whatever he or she can to protect himself or herself.  If parents demand a safe environment for their unindividuated children, then let them investigate how different universities plan for and respond to emergency situations.

And no, the above statement has nothing to do with gun control.

[madamesmartypants]

Welcome back wow, or anon, or whichever dimwit you are.  Your post is illogical; in the first paragraph you claim a need for more spending on non-academic staff, while in the second, you claim there is too much spending on non-academic staff.

The amount universities spend on security and disaster preparedness is miniscule compared to the amount spent on intercollegiate athletics, but as long as parents can be convinced that a university will simultaneously coddle and entertain Buffy and Jimbo, parents will be willing to shell out money for tuition.  The killings at Virginia Tech may wake some parents and students up to the fact that random acts of violence sometimes happen and it is the individual's responsibility, not that of an organization, to do whatever he or she can to protect himself or herself.  If parents demand a safe environment for their unindividuated children, then let them investigate how different universities plan for and respond to emergency situations.

And no, the above statement has nothing to do with gun control.

I agree with you about the illogic of cslacker's diversity vs. safety argument, but I think that putting all of the burden for safety preparedness on the shoulders of individual college students is unnecessary and undesirable. Organizations are a lot more effective than individuals in creating a safe environment because they control more information and can mobilize more people and resources. I liked what datawoman had to say about her institution's safety program:

Quote from: datawoman on Yesterday at 07:21:10 PM
All faculty and staff are asked to attend a safety briefing once a year.  Each dept has a designated person in charge of emergency procedures. I forget what they are called. Each building has a person in charge in case of emergency.  The office doors of every person who has been trained in CPR/AED are marked with a certain type of sticker.

It doesn't sound like getting a safety program up and running must be either costly or time-consuming. You just need to have the protocols in place and the commitment of the university community to carry them out when and if it should one day be needed.

[diana_prince]

The "petty" arguments started when our dear President decided to politicize this by citing the second amendment even before expressing sorrow for the tragedy.  The blame for the gun control debate, like many things, rests with him.

Untenured

It's been months since I've posted on here. I came to this forum to read the thoughts of academics, but I should have expected that hatred and anger toward GWB would be front and center in the discussion. Is it possible for you to set that aside?

There's some psychological reason so many of you want to blame GWB for any and all ills in our country. What are you going to do and who are you going to blame when he's no longer in office and tragedies such as these continue? He wasn't in office when Columbine happened.

I don't want to place blame with the administration of the school. I just would like to know that they took all precautions, especially after reports of bomb threats the week prior where buildings were locked down, and after one shooting already took place. Whether it was considered an isolated domestic dispute or not, if I were on that campus I would have wanted to know if there was a shooter at large. There was a first shooting and the shooter was still at large on campus, and yet, students were walking around completely unaware. I understand it's a large campus. Still, cities are notified when shootings occur and shooters are at large. It appears they didn't want to "scare" the students about the first shooting or as one reporter described, they didn't want to "cry wolf."

I feel like we're letting our young people down, and the people in charge just don't seem to know what they're doing.

[grasshopper]

In mid-September this past year, Kimveer Gill shot up Dawson College in downtown Montreal, killing one woman, putting two other women into comas, and injuring 17 others (6 of which were in critical condition). I posted a thread about it, which had a very low response rate.

In December, I posted a thread on a different forum populated mainly by Americans, commemorating the 14 women shot dead by Marc Lepine at the Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal in 1989. Again, not much response. In fact, many people didn't know about it, and this is a group of highly educated, thoughtful people. Most of those who had heard of the Montreal Massacre didn't really consider it that important.

What is it about "our own backyards" that makes it more important? I'm not pointing the finger at Americans so much, but at "us" in general, because when you get right down to it, America's backyard may as well be ours, and our Canadian interest in the U.S. tragedy really doesn't say much about our sympathetic nature.

When New Orleans was flooded and destroyed, a friend of mine caught the BBC news (the CBC was on strike at the time, and the CBC news was replaced by the BBC). Anyway, the New Orleans tragedy was buried under a bunch of other stories. It was given about as much air time as an earthquake in India would be given here. It wasn't in their backyards, and it was just another natural disaster that had happened "somewhere else."

I think - and I'm just talking out of my butt here - that we spend so much damn time looking inward (The Oprah Syndrome) that we forget that there is a whole big wide world out there. And when we do that, the whole big wide world out there can become pretty darn unimportant, except (and this is the kicker) as it relates to me, individually. From there, you don't have to be a wingnut to not fully understand how your actions (or lack thereof) have repercussions in the big wide world out there. Our actions as a culture are perfectly mirrored in the individual actions of these shooters. It makes me as culpable as them.

I'm just trying to make sense of this.

I liked it that Bush referred to yesterday's shooting spree as a violation against "sanctity."

[illuminata]

I know, Grassy, we all get caught up in our tunnel vision--and the lack of media coverage of international events doesn't help. However, flip back on this thread about 3-4 pages and check out the response I got from a friend in South Africa- it will cheer you up on that score, I think.

[dr_stones]

Backyard news prevails ... but I'm not the first person to think that if this happened at a college in Baghdad, the story would barely dent a mention on NPR ...

[spork]

I think - and I'm just talking out of my butt here - that we spend so much damn time looking inward (The Oprah Syndrome) that we forget that there is a whole big wide world out there. And when we do that, the whole big wide world out there can become pretty darn unimportant, except (and this is the kicker) as it relates to me, individually. From there, you don't have to be a wingnut to not fully understand how your actions (or lack thereof) have repercussions in the big wide world out there. Our actions as a culture are perfectly mirrored in the individual actions of these shooters. It makes me as culpable as them.

You've made a very good point; you're not talking out of your butt at all.

[anthroid]

I think - and I'm just talking out of my butt here - that we spend so much damn time looking inward (The Oprah Syndrome) that we forget that there is a whole big wide world out there. And when we do that, the whole big wide world out there can become pretty darn unimportant, except (and this is the kicker) as it relates to me, individually. From there, you don't have to be a wingnut to not fully understand how your actions (or lack thereof) have repercussions in the big wide world out there. Our actions as a culture are perfectly mirrored in the individual actions of these shooters. It makes me as culpable as them.

You've made a very good point; you're not talking out of your butt at all.

Indeed. And while I am completely torn up about this horrific event, I also am quite annoyed at its billing as the worst shooting in the history of the nation.  Talk about tunnel vision.  Gunmen opened up on American Indian populations through the history of this nation.  Massacres, particularly after the widespread availability of the repeating rifle, were not uncommon.

That being said, this particular event has dislocated me in ways that are similar to my reactions to 9/11.

And that being said, I will just weigh in with strong agreement that automatic and semi-automatic guns must be removed from this culture.  Period.  The second amendment, if we agree (and most of us don't) that it intended individual citizens, rather than state military forces, to own guns, allows only for muskets.

Jefferson and Adams and Franklin and our other founders would be horrified beyond belief at the arguments made by the pro-gun people.  Just horrified.  For shame.  For shame.

[sethers33]

Just an FYI - while VT has not publicly released the victim names, a few on-line searches show that several faculty were victims as well. I think for all the bickering that occurs in many academic departments, just think about if this tragedy happened at your campus and how you would react...

VT's student, faculty, staff, and the families of those who lost loved ones need all the moral support they can have right now, not debates about policy, politics, or passing blame....

[tenured_feminist]

Yes, this is not a time for blame.  It is a time for mourning.  I cannot imagine what folks down there must be going through right now. 

If anyone with a connection to VA Tech is still reading this thread, please accept my deepest condolences and heartfelt wishes for healing.

[grasshopper]

I think - and I'm just talking out of my butt here - that we spend so much damn time looking inward (The Oprah Syndrome) that we forget that there is a whole big wide world out there. And when we do that, the whole big wide world out there can become pretty darn unimportant, except (and this is the kicker) as it relates to me, individually. From there, you don't have to be a wingnut to not fully understand how your actions (or lack thereof) have repercussions in the big wide world out there. Our actions as a culture are perfectly mirrored in the individual actions of these shooters. It makes me as culpable as them.

You've made a very good point; you're not talking out of your butt at all.

No, I really am talking out of my butt. I'm making sweeping, transcendent statements, without any kind of evidence at all. I even made up the whole Oprah Syndrome thing.

Fortunately, though, I have a great butt, so more often than not, what comes out of it sounds at least plausible.

That said, I'm always suspicious of my own motives when I find myself inclined to point the finger and demonize - for instance, "the media." (They're us, by the way. We are in no way removed from the culture that has spawned the media, with all its lack of international scope and its overdramatizations of local events. Those reporters are people that we meet every single day of our lives. We live with them. We share space with them. We share most of the same values. They're not demons. Not even Cooper Anderson - whoops! make that Anderson Cooper. What we see on the evening news is a reflection of us, of our culture).

[orienteer]

When New Orleans was flooded and destroyed, a friend of mine caught the BBC news (the CBC was on strike at the time, and the CBC news was replaced by the BBC). Anyway, the New Orleans tragedy was buried under a bunch of other stories. It was given about as much air time as an earthquake in India would be given here. It wasn't in their backyards, and it was just another natural disaster that had happened "somewhere else."

Sorry to have to say this on this thread, but this is a crock as far as the US is represented in the UK. NO was big news for a long time in the UK, with a lot of reporting and documentaries. The VT story is likewise the main story in most of the UK mass media. There is puzzlement at the  US's gun culture (and that is not to comment on the positions stated in this thread, just to say that that puzzlement exists); but the main theme is deepest sympathy.

[anthroid]

Just an FYI - while VT has not publicly released the victim names, a few on-line searches show that several faculty were victims as well. I think for all the bickering that occurs in many academic departments, just think about if this tragedy happened at your campus and how you would react...

VT's student, faculty, staff, and the families of those who lost loved ones need all the moral support they can have right now, not debates about policy, politics, or passing blame....

You are right.  Further discussion can wait for different times.

What is most profoundly affecting for me is that I am in a similar kind of university in the region.  I can imagine to some extent, though still quite poorly, what yesterday must have felt like and what the experience may have been.  I remain on the edge of tears for VT and Blacksburg and for our fallen colleagues, students, and all families and friends involved.  They and everyone here are in my thoughts.