next »

[case_insensitive]

How could one person cause that much carnage?

Lots of ammunition, people in confined spaces, shock and confusion.

As for a 2 hour time span between the first shootings in the dorm and the second shootings in the classroom building, someone, or some people, within the VT or Blacksburg police forces will be in big trouble.    Controlled searches should have been initiated immediately, from the dormitory outward, until the campus was cleared and the shooter(s) apprehended or killed.

Just as a point of info, Va Tech is a very large university with a fairly sprawling campus and, one wonders how they could lock down the whole campus with the number of police that could be available on very short notice (campus cops, town police, and county sheriffs would be mostly all that would be likely to be near by).  This dorm and this other building are not near each other, by the way.  I agree with spork though, that 2 hours between shootings is shocking.  I do want to know how long it took to "lock down" or whatever it is that they did after the initial 911 call.

CNN's been saying that the first 911 calls seemed to have been treated as a "one-off" event and the police were reacting and deciding what to do.  The eye-witness students who have been interviewed by CNN have related how chaotic it was at the dorm; I suppose it would be easy for the shooter to leave and who would imagine that he would show up across campus to wreak more carnage.  I hope the police are lauded for their work and not criticized.  How can they control any of this?  From what I've seen and heard, it sounds like they did and are doing their best to respond.

Lockdowns in K-12 schools are easier b/c of the single building and the public announcement system.  How *does* it work on campuses of multiple buildings??

The other scary thing is the bomb threats to VT last week and all the questions related to that - is this the same person who did the threats?  Guess we'll find out...

Just that one dorm (AJ) houses about 900 folks, I think.  It's huge.  I'm sure the chaos was unimaginable.  The classroom building that was involved later is way across campus and reasonably large as well.  For the law enforcement officers, this is quite different from k-12 type incidents, indeed.  More like urban warfare with a sniper sort of thing than locking down a school with a limited number of buildings. :o(

This is a big university, in a small town in a sparsely populated county.  The pressure on the LE folks was immense, no doubt.

[magimax]

CNN's been saying that the first 911 calls seemed to have been treated as a "one-off" event

I am not familiar with this expression, what does a "one-off" event mean?

An unusual, abnormal event.  Not part of a pattern.   (At least, that's what I've always understood it to mean.)

[magimax]

Just that one dorm (AJ) houses about 900 folks, I think.  It's huge.  I'm sure the chaos was unimaginable.  The classroom building that was involved later is way across campus and reasonably large as well.  For the law enforcement officers, this is quite different from k-12 type incidents, indeed.  More like urban warfare with a sniper sort of thing than locking down a school with a limited number of buildings. :o(

This is a big university, in a small town in a sparsely populated county.  The pressure on the LE folks was immense, no doubt.

They are awesome people, those in law enforcement. 

Now Wolf Blitzer is on, counting the shots that are audible in that clip taken by a student with his camera phone.  For pity's sake, Wolf. 

[grasshopper]

Every year, I tell students that plagiarism is a personal affront to me, because I consider the university to be a sacred space, where people are free and safe to think and learn. When they plagiarize, it feels like they're pissing in a corner of my church.

But when something like this happens, suddenly pissing in my church doesn't seem so bad.

I feel so horrible for all of you with connections to those people or to that campus. Please take my sympathies, and put them in your pocket for when you need them. This is going to be a long, dark night.

[helpful]

Bush's statement on 'the right to bear arms" in this midst of this carnage is what got me going so hard on CI. I apologize for it.

But Bush should not have injected this right to bear arms argument (read the Constitution, GW, it is about the right to form militias, not about the right to bear arms) into such a difficult day. Sure he was trying to appeal to his political base,, but it did no good, and much harm to say so.

[sikora]

Please be careful about insinuating that mental illness equals violence.  I have a mental illness, and I am pro gun control, a pacifist, and a really nice and gentle person.  

Most mentally ill are likely to off themselves.

Still, the connection is easy to understand.

If you want to make generalizations, we could start talking gender here ...

But, I agree with another poster.  Today is a day for outrage, shock, and grief. Let us hold our students and colleagues up to God (if you will), hug the one's we love and be grateful for their safety.

Obscure, but still the first dog in space

[phlebas2006]

CNN's been saying that the first 911 calls seemed to have been treated as a "one-off" event

I am not familiar with this expression, what does a "one-off" event mean?

A "one-off" is sort of an exception, something outside of the norm, to be dealt with outside the usual process.  In that context, I think it's being used incorrectly by CNN--opposite, in fact.  In business, for example, if 99% of your customers want their widgets shipped within 72 hours, but you have a very small number that must have them sent overnight, you build your operations processes around the 72-hour timeframe and treat the remaining few as a "one-off."

[zarathustra]

Just that one dorm (AJ) houses about 900 folks, I think.  It's huge.  I'm sure the chaos was unimaginable.  The classroom building that was involved later is way across campus and reasonably large as well.  For the law enforcement officers, this is quite different from k-12 type incidents, indeed.  More like urban warfare with a sniper sort of thing than locking down a school with a limited number of buildings. :o(

This is a big university, in a small town in a sparsely populated county.  The pressure on the LE folks was immense, no doubt.

They are awesome people, those in law enforcement. 

Now Wolf Blitzer is on, counting the shots that are audible in that clip taken by a student with his camera phone.  For pity's sake, Wolf. 

Wow. I would find that more disturbing than the shot CBS showed of what might've been the shooter's body being carried off by police (no body bag) and other victims.  I keep thinking it's someone's child or sibling they're showing and I doubt very much that families have been contacted.  I wish they wouldn't do that.

[magimax]

Please be careful about insinuating that mental illness equals violence.  I have a mental illness, and I am pro gun control, a pacifist, and a really nice and gentle person.  

Most mentally ill are likely to off themselves.

Still, the connection is easy to understand.

If you want to make generalizations, we could start talking gender here ...

Or university discipline.

[phlebas2006]

Bush's statement on 'the right to bear arms" in this midst of this carnage is what got me going so hard on CI. I apologize for it.

But Bush should not have injected this right to bear arms argument (read the Constitution, GW, it is about the right to form militias, not about the right to bear arms) into such a difficult day. Sure he was trying to appeal to his political base,, but it did no good, and much harm to say so.

Not to defend our Contractor-in-Chief, but it was going to be brought up by the media anyway. So, in some consultant's mind (I'm guessing), better to say it first than be caught trying to reconcile your statement of sorrow with your belief in the 2nd amendment.  Appropriate?  No. Gonna be asked anyway? Yeah.  Would anything he said not anger some group? No.

As Trabb said above, let's give it a little time before the debate.  At an emotional time, it feels comforting to argue the extremes, neither of which seems practical or beneficial: giving up our 2nd amendment rights or arming every student and faculty member.

[elsie]

I feel sick and numb. I've had the local news streaming all afternoon and been eavesdropping on students in the hall on their cellphones as they try to track down friends and family at Tech. I've heard from at least one of my friends, and a friend who teaches at Tech is out of the country right now, so she's fine.

[john_proctor]

The University campus is my sacred space, as well.  I could easily imagine that many of we posters know someone or have a connection to someone who is related with VTU - an alum or a colleague or someone currently there as a student.  

I have two friends there and two people who have been powerfully important to my intellectual and professional development (all are safe).  (similar region for academic conferences; many from similar grad-schools, etc.)

What I can not move past is the amazing similarity between that campus and my own.  Same type of place.  Similar small-town/state campus context.  Not too far away geographically.  (VTU is bigger).

I keep thinking of my own morning, how I came into work in the morning, pleased with some things from the weekend, annoyed about some tasks for the day/week, excited about others, mostly wanting coffee and a few minutes before office hours begin.  

I can't imagine how it works that before office hours were over my department would be decimated.  Students, advisees, colleagues just gone.

The university campus has always been my "safe place."  When things like this happen...

[magimax]

I keep thinking of my own morning, how I came into work in the morning, pleased with some things from the weekend, annoyed about some tasks for the day/week, excited about others, mostly wanting coffee and a few minutes before office hours begin.  

I can't imagine how it works that before office hours were over my department would be decimated.  Students, advisees, colleagues just gone.

And to think that the big news yesterday was the effect the weather might have on the Boston Marathon...

[magimax]

CNN's been saying that the first 911 calls seemed to have been treated as a "one-off" event

I am not familiar with this expression, what does a "one-off" event mean?

A "one-off" is sort of an exception, something outside of the norm, to be dealt with outside the usual process.  In that context, I think it's being used incorrectly by CNN--opposite, in fact.  In business, for example, if 99% of your customers want their widgets shipped within 72 hours, but you have a very small number that must have them sent overnight, you build your operations processes around the 72-hour timeframe and treat the remaining few as a "one-off."

Keep in mind though, the first responders were campus police, not city police and certainly not the SWAT.  For the campus police, responding to a 911 call of "shots fired" is a one-off, outside of the norm, and they may not have been able to nor known precisely how to best respond. 

[angel]

I'm just so profoundly moved by this tragedy. For most of the day I only had time to catch snippets, a lot by word of mouth. People here stopped each other in the halls to ask for news and updates. It's staggering. My sympathies to all who know people at VT, and to everyone whose sense of peace and sanctity has been shaken. My own certainly has.