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[smart_e_pantz]

And THEN she posted several nasty Myspace blogs about me that other students saw (and threatened to murder her if she didn't taken them  down). I so, so, so wanted to say that she was just plain too fat for the show (I hinted that the talent level at the audition was extremely high and it was very tough). She eats Jack in the Box and McDs all day and then wear short skirts and lets her tummy hang out all over- and she's pissed that I wouldn't let her be a dancing napkin in a small costume w a bunch of other dancers? Please!

Is this student a theater arts major?  If she is, it could be part of your job to let her know, gently, that her size will be a hindrance to her getting certain types of roles.  Then, see if you can get her a consultation with a nutritionist or dietitian who can help her come up with a sensible eating/exercise plan.

If she not a major, then screw her!

[rowan1]

Dive prof - the weight issue is one we have to deal with all the time, the key is finding ways to make sure they understand the reality of the profession and the need to have a healthy body in order to work at the same time not setting them up for bad choices and distorted body images.  I have arranged for nutritionists and exercise coaches to come to theatre club meetings to talk about healthy choices.  I am honest with my students about that reality, in kind ways and never in response to a casting question.  But I understand, there are times you want to just be cruelly blunt!

Hang in there.  and seriously, unless she is a major and set on becoming  a professional - ignore her.

[iomhaigh]

Gah...... this is why I design.  It is a lot easier to tell students that their physical issues will clearly prevent them from doing something by having them attempt to move the turntable on their own or crawl into the tiny space beneath the platform where the control center is located.  Clears it all up nicely.

[rowan1]

Gah...... this is why I design.  It is a lot easier to tell students that their physical issues will clearly prevent them from doing something by having them attempt to move the turntable on their own or crawl into the tiny space beneath the platform where the control center is located.  Clears it all up nicely.

lol!  In terms of tech work the biggest mystery to me is how hard it is to teach them how to sweep and mop a stage effectively!

[comp_queen]

Okay--let me preface this by saying that I know NOTHING about theater on a professional level.  I completely understand that the system is what it is, and that's why already underweight women like Jessica Simpson go on diets for their movies.  I do understand this.

However, I am a woman living in this world, and I get ignored by men (except the SO, bless him) for being AVERAGE size, and I'm a little taken aback that neither of the theater profs (who I understand to be women) seem to be troubled AT ALL by the size-ist ethic that this system forces them to pass on to students (read this sentence carefully--I am NOT blaming you or criticizing, just trying to add to the discussion). 

Have we heard of Camryn Manheim?  Rosie O'Donnell?  The fact that I can't think of any other theatrically famous women of substance off the top of my head is eloquently dealt with by Jennifer Weiner in the Afterword to the paperback of Good in Bed, but--like adjuncting as discussed on another thread--the size-ism of the entertainment industry is a system that NEEDS TO CHANGE. 

I do do DO understand that you need to prepare your students for the system as it is, but don't you also have a responsibility to loudly advocate for change, even if you are not in a position (i.e. Hollywood studio head) to make change happen?

[smart_e_pantz]

Okay--let me preface this by saying that I know NOTHING about theater on a professional level.  I completely understand that the system is what it is, and that's why already underweight women like Jessica Simpson go on diets for their movies.  I do understand this.

However, I am a woman living in this world, and I get ignored by men (except the SO, bless him) for being AVERAGE size, and I'm a little taken aback that neither of the theater profs (who I understand to be women) seem to be troubled AT ALL by the size-ist ethic that this system forces them to pass on to students (read this sentence carefully--I am NOT blaming you or criticizing, just trying to add to the discussion). 

Have we heard of Camryn Manheim?  Rosie O'Donnell?  The fact that I can't think of any other theatrically famous women of substance off the top of my head is eloquently dealt with by Jennifer Weiner in the Afterword to the paperback of Good in Bed, but--like adjuncting as discussed on another thread--the size-ism of the entertainment industry is a system that NEEDS TO CHANGE. 

I do do DO understand that you need to prepare your students for the system as it is, but don't you also have a responsibility to loudly advocate for change, even if you are not in a position (i.e. Hollywood studio head) to make change happen?

This is a fair statement.  However, diveprof stated that this kid weighs @300 lbs.  There is no amount of advocacy that is going to result in her being allowed on stage half-dressed as a dancer.  If musical theater--complete with dance sequences--is this student's goal, she needs to lose weight.  And, diveprof would not be doing her job if she let her graduate with a degree in theater arts thinking otherwise. 

[rowan1]

I do care about the size-ist ethis.  That is why I try to provide my students with an approach to being healthy and not being anorexic or bulimic.  That is also why it is a sensitive issue and why I never discuss weight in terms of not being cast.

The industry is what it is and we see and can encourage change, for example the modeling industry has been working against the way too thin size of high fashion run way models, and we can see great examples of women who are not rail thin - Drew Barrymore, Susan Sharadon, and others, who are still beautiful and healthy. Drew adn Susan are doing a lot to produce women directors and women's roles that are not the skinny bimbo roles. Cameron and Rosie are also good examples - but they are character actors, you want to experience a difficult conversation - try explaining to a 20 year old they are not the leading man or woman type.  Try convincing them that the really good roles are those great character roles.  Welcome to my world.

I can not change the industry, I can not change men who would ignore someone who is average size (and as an average sized person that has never been my experience) but I can help my female, and male students, be aware of healthy vs unhealthy choices.  Factoid - if you want roles in film and on stage you have to be healthy, that does not mean you have to be rail thin.  We discuss the actresses and actors that take weight issues too far and what is wrong with that.  

As someone who works with students who are going into an industry where they have do not even have a 50/50 chance of making it, I have to evaluate their talent honestly and also talk to them, honestly, about the expectations of the industry. Part of my job is teaching them how to market themselves.

Change will come with time, but there will never be a great deal of change regarding overweight vs healthy sized actors.  I want to stress the word healthy - I do not mean thin, I mean healthy.  An actor's tool is their body, they need to treat it with respect, and very few do.  That is what is truly sad.

[antiphon]

Size issues aside, I believe the actor in question flubbed the audition.  Why would any director cast an actor who brings neither talent nor a good work ethic to the process?  If you are talentless, a whiner, vindictive and grossly immature, you are not going to get cast.  I wouldn't cast the actor because of the attitude.  Life is too short.

[kaysixteen]

What percentage of would-be actors, either stage or Hollywood, actually get enough acting work to live on, and what percentage of these actors actually have formal acting training on a post-high school level?  How many, OTOH, are like the Duke (whose 100th Birthday all real Americans celebrate May 25), who have no such training but just get discovered and go on to successful careers?

[rowan1]

Sigh.

The "Duke" started in film in the 1920's, just as a point of reference.  And he played that one character really well.

Source:  U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics; http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos093.htm#training
TRAINING, OTHER QUALIFICATIONS, AND ADVANCEMENT
Formal dramatic training, either through an acting conservatory or a university program, generally is necessary, but some people successfully enter the field without it. Most people studying for a bachelor’s degree take courses in radio and television broadcasting, communications, film, theater, drama, or dramatic literature. Many continue their academic training and receive a Master of Fine Arts (MFA) degree. Advanced curricula may include courses in stage speech and movement, directing, playwriting, and design, as well as intensive acting workshops. The National Association of Schools of Theatre accredits 135 programs in theater arts. A few people go into acting following successful careers in other fields, such as broadcasting or announcing.


Some actors you might have heard of:  (Oscar winners and nominees in bold, I didn't feel like searching out Emmys and Tonys)

Susan Sarandon - Undergrad – Catholic School of America
Tim Robbins - SUNY Plattsburg,  UCLA Film School
Denzel Washington   BA in Drama and Journalism Fordham University, Graduate work – American Conservatory Theatre
Forrest Whitaker – Univ of Southern CA (opera) Drama Studio London (UC Berkley)
Judy Dench – Central School of Speecha dn Drama – London,
Meryl Streep – Yale School of Drama

Some alumni lists from different schools:
North Carolina School of the Arts
Alumni: Diedrich Bader, K. Todd Freeman, Tom Hulce , Mary-Louise Parker, Jada Pinkett Smith

Southern Methodist Univ. Alumni: Kathy Bates (BFA), Powers Booth(MFA),

The Actor’s Studio Alumni – Marlon Brando, Robert DeNiro (also attended the Stella Adler School), Norman Mailer, Eli Wallach, Sidney Poitier,

UCLA
Corbin Bernson, Jack Black , Carol Burnett, James Dean, Joyce DeWitt, Mariska Hargitay, Mark Harmon, Tim Robbins, Tom Skerritt, George Takei,

Tisch School of the Arts NYU Alumni – Barry Bostwick, Peter Krause,  Eriq LaSalle, Debra Messing,

Royal Academy of the Dramatic Arts:
Peter O’Toole, Richard Attenborough, Alan Bates, Sean Bean, Kenneth Branagh, Michael Caine, Timothy Dalton, Brian Epstein, Ralph Finnes, Albert Finney, John Gielgud, Ian Holme, Anthony Hopkins, Trevor Howard, John Hurt, Glenda Jackson, Vivien Leigh, Joan Littlewood, Roger Moore, Alan Rickman, Fiona Shaw

Needless to say this is just hte tip of the iceberg.  Yes you can make it in film and television without going to college, on stage it is much tougher.  Longevity - training helps.

[smart_e_pantz]

Ahem...  that would be Sir Anthony Hopkins!

[rowan1]

Ahem...  that would be Sir Anthony Hopkins!

Actually, he gave up his Knighthood when he became an American Citizen.

;-)

[iomhaigh]

Mopping and sweeping!  HA!  So true.... I have no magic for this, aside from showing them the dirt on white gloves. 


I have friends who have seen casting calls come out and request white men between 5'11 and 6'2 who are a healthy weight for that size and have tightly curled light brown hair with blue eyes.  One of them fits the bill and found himself at an audition in a roomful of people who could have been twins.

Age, roles, talent, connections, box-office draw capabilities... these things all matter. 

K16 -- if you want some stats, check out
http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/about/AEA_Annual_Study_05-06.pdf

It won't have anything about education levels, but it will talk about your wages question.  (This is only Equity, though.)  Certainly, education can help with skills, which will in turn help with longevity as mentioned below, but education can also help with connections if you go to a school with connections. 

[kaysixteen]

Ok-- follow-up question would be, should a theatre program accept a 300lb student, knowing she'll more or less be unemployable as an actress?  Shouldn't someone at least tell her this ahead of time?

[antiphon]

Not all colleges require students to apply and be accepted to a major.  Would I accept a 300 lb. major?  Sure, if the student passed the prerequisites.  Would I cast the student or assign technical positons to the student?  Sure, if the student auditioned well and had a work ethic in line with my expectations.  I've worked with sizey students who blew the doors off on stage and as techies.  Several of them are pursuing professional careers and meeting with some success.  Did I privately counsel the actors about the potential obstacles they might face?  You betcha.  Fortunately, the students completely ignored my warnings.