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[just_dave]

But sadly what I think really dooms my employment prospects in the US is that I guess I'm really not desperate enough to take any tt job at any university in any part of the US, no matter how unpleasant it would be to either me or my family. 

I guess I'm your typical spoiled expat.

[ajarn]

Just Dave

I have heard jobs in the US in your field are very scarce and competitive. My first teaching job was as an ESL, or is it EFL, teacher for 5 bucks an hour in downtown Bangkok, great experience in learning to teach.  Teaching conversational English to foreigners is a great way to develop presentation and improvising skills.


My field is management/International business, and I have experience as both a manager and consultant in Southeast Asia. Therefore I am not limited to the field of academia, however, teaching, researching and writing seem to be what I most enjoy and have the most talent for. I think I am much better at explaining how to run a business than I am at actually running one.  My primary interest (research wise) is on researching on business practices and poverty reduction (Most of my research has been done in Cambodia). However, I write about business in Asia in general (books on doing business in Cambodia and Laos don’t sell so well).  However, I might have the opportunity to actually be able to put some of the theories I have been working on to use in a non-academic position for an NGO focusing on increasing trade in a lesser developed country. But even if I get this job, I know I will want to come back to academia in the future.

I am working with a group centered in the US on a book on poverty reduction and I  am scheduled to be part of a presentation at the Academy of Management Conference this August, I guess if I am serious about landing a job in the US that would be a great opportunity to make an impression.  Anyway, I think I am also mostly a spoiled expat, I enjoy the whole being a foreigner thing, as you explained, don’t fit in anywhere but don’t have to fit in either.

My kids are nearing university age, and it would be nice if they actually got a chance to live in an English speaking environment for awhile (they rarely speak English, they much prefer Thai) and for family reasons I have thought about going home, for selfish reasons, I would much prefer to continue to live the life of an expat.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and comments, lots of food for thought.

Cheers

[just_dave]

My field is management/International business, and I have experience as both a manager and consultant in Southeast Asia. Therefore I am not limited to the field of academia, however, teaching, researching and writing seem to be what I most enjoy and have the most talent for.

If you could get a prestigious international business type gig with a strong US (or UN) connection, it seems like that might be your best "in" into a Business department at a US university.  It think that sort of "industry to academia" move is a bit more common in the business field. 

My kids are nearing university age, and it would be nice if they actually got a chance to live in an English speaking environment for awhile (they rarely speak English, they much prefer Thai) and for family reasons I have thought about going home, for selfish reasons, I would much prefer to continue to live the life of an expat.

This is a classic expat story.  Everyone starts to think of that "job back home" once the kids start hitting high school age (or often before).  My own kids were well into their teens before they ever lived in the US -- and most of their education had been in local schools in Mexico and Japan where they of course had to speak Spanish and Japanese.  All three of my kids still have English language issues.  At the moment, I'm in Japan and the family is in the US (Southern Cal).  We'll just have to see how things work out.  I earn about $20,000 a year more in Japan than I would as an Assistant Prof in the humanities back in the US.  So other that personal ego issues it's really hard to see why a tt job in the US would be a good thing for my family. 

[avaya]

Avaya

I do not know if your attitude is typical of those in academia in America, but it is obvious that “brand name” of school means a lot to some.

You do seem passionate about barring the entrance to the ivy halls to those of us with “lesser” academic backgrounds and I am sure we will never see eye to eye on this issue.

Ajarn:

You seem to be deeply hurt and taking everything personally.

I actually am only a tenure-track faculty with no power over who gets hired.  I get little to no voice on selection committees.  The sentiments I expressed were not mine - I was just reporting REALITY as I have experienced it.  I certainly never said I agreed with any of it.  I just said, "This is life, and I'm sorry if you are unhappy, but you probably could have anticipated it."  What I did not say was, "Your degree sucks and is of low quality and you're worthless and you don't deserve a US job," even though it sounds like that's what you think I said.  Let me be clear:  I didn't say that!  I don't think that!  I don't know anything about the quality of your degree or your scholarship etc.  I would never make such judgments.  I am only reporting on to you what I know about the US job market.

In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

[ajarn]

Avaya

Sorry if I took your words the wrong way, obviously it is easy to be misunderstood in this type of situation.

As a business faculty type of dude, I understand about positioning and tradeoffs. It is not like I am despondent over not finding a job in a US university in the last 3 or 4 months. Sure, this is an option I would like to have available to me, but if it is not, it is not, and I will move on. Nothing personal.

I guess your suggesting I should have known my degree would be considered worthless in US academia struck the wrong nerve. How should I have known? I have never been at a university in the US. I have studied and worked at branches of US universities in foreign countries and it was not unusual to see university staff advancing their education online, since the more traditional option was not available.

The degree has opened up many doors for me, just not in the USA. I f I had to do it over again, I would, a traditional PhD was not an option and having a non-traditional degree is better than not having a degree at all. 

Academia is not unique is having people with particular qualifications attempt to defend their positions by claiming the qualifications of others are lesser. In the US military, having a degree before joining makes one an officer, if one earns a degree after joining, it is considered far inferior. The officer class (those in command) work hard to limit the enlisted class from encroaching upon the position of the officers.  Heck, you should hear the fantastical defense of the ESL teachers here in Thailand of the 4 week certification courses they took while claiming anyone without a four week training course is not a real teacher. This kind of situation is common where there are no easy and measurable methods of evaluating performance. Snobbery is not an exclusive property of academia.

I would have thought living abroad probably has more to do with it than the degree. I don’t know of any research done on academic ex-pats, but research shows that in the past, people who took ex-pat assignments in US companies were promoted at a slower rate and left the company (after returning) at a faster rate than employees who stayed at home. This was not true in European and Asian organization, where expat assignments have been a key to advancement (at least this is what the research indicates). There are signs things are changing in US companies, and foreign experience is becoming an asset instead of a burden, but it would not surprised me that academia is lagging behind on this shift of priorities. The atmosphere in US universities may change in the future, however with the shift of foreign students away from the US to other countries, maybe not.

Just Dave

Spent three years in Japan myself, there are worse places to hang out.

[just_dave]

but research shows that in the past, people who took ex-pat assignments in US companies were promoted at a slower rate and left the company (after returning) at a faster rate than employees who stayed at home.

In the Middle East I heard people talking about the "boomer" phenomenon -- these were expats who would rise quickly in the overseas end of the company but once you got a reputation as a boomer your chances of rising into upper management "back home" became very slim.  A sort of glass ceiling for expats.

Spent three years in Japan myself, there are worse places to hang out.

I'll never have a easier job.  That's for sure.  Just found out today no one registered for one of my classes so now I'm only teaching 6 hours a week -- and getting 5 months worth of salary in bonuses each year. 

[just_dave]

Heck, you should hear the fantastical defense of the ESL teachers here in Thailand of the 4 week certification courses they took while claiming anyone without a four week training course is not a real teacher.

That's the EFL world in a nutshell.  You're not a teacher because I have a 4-week certificate and you don't.  You're not a teacher because you don't have a BA and I do.  You're not a teacher because your BA is in History while mine is in English lit.  You're not a teacher because you don't have an MATESOL and I do.  You're not a teacher because you only have an MA....  And in the end no one at any level will ever admit that any other teacher at any other level might, just possibly, have an idea that you don't.

[ajarn]

Just Dave

Well the ESL community and "academia" do seem to have this quality in common:). I see the ESL community in Japan is not much different than here in Thailand. Different professional levels but the debate and rationale behind one's position seem the same.

[ajarn]

Well, absolutely nothing from any of the US schools I applied to, no that is not entirely accurate, at least one school actually acknowledged receipt of my application, which is farther than I normally get.
So I have accepted a job with a European based organization in Asia. I’m excited about getting started and feel this will be a great chance to do exciting work and develop professional. A real win-win situation.
Maybe I have lived outside my home country too long, but I honestly can say I have no clue about how the hiring process works in the US these days. Is it the foreign address that turns everyone off? What about globalization and diversity? Complete nonsense? 

[larryc]

The biggest factor in your lack of success may simply be the tough academic job market. There may be lots of other people with you same qualifications striking out. 

Have you had anyone within American academia look at your application materials--your cover letter, vita, teaching portfolio? You may not be presenting yourself effectively.

[losemygrip]

To whomever said he was bitter, I don't think ajarn comes across as bitter.  Just curious.

I think the big issue is that you've never been to college in the U.S.  I can tell you in my own experience, that's a sign of big trouble for a faculty member.  We had someone who went to a specialty school for a "certificate," then got an "independent study" graduate degree (and this was in the U.S.!).  I argued strongly against this hire, but was outvoted.  Turned out to be a mess.  No understanding of curriculum, teaching was very shallow and betrayed ignorance of many issues, mystified at the workings of the university, etc.  This person had years of "real life" experience and was in many ways very accomplished in his/her field.  Didn't matter.  S/he wasn't good in academe because there was no understanding of the system, having not gone through it.

So I can sympathize with American schools who are shying away from your application.  Your lack of experience here may even cause your CV and letter to be organized and written in a way that seems alien, thus reinforcing their suspicions.

If you're in a field that's in high demand, you can be considered.  If there are plenty of other good applicants, it's easy to look elsewhere.

[ajarn]

larryc and losemygrip

Good points and thanks for the inputs. While I have never been in a US university within the USA, I have spent time in US universities, aboard, I know not the same thing, but it is not like I am a complete outsider, I am in reality just a small town Midwestern boy who has spent a few, well maybe it has been more than a few, years away from home.

On the other hand, I have also never attended a university in Europe or Australia and I have received interviews and offers from organizations in these locations.

I am getting a sense that I am beginning told that US universities and other organizations really don’t have much desire for those of us with somewhat unique experiences, or maybe they don’t know how to evaluate foreign experience, while in other locations these types of qualifications may be more prized. The answer I have gotten might explain the rejection of my experience and qualifications in the USA, but it does not explain the lack of rejection in other areas of the world in which I have less connection.

I hope I am not bitter, but then again, I don’t know anyone, myself included, who likes rejection. I don’t think I would have turned down the offer I did receive for a job at one of the US universities I applied to, however having the opportunity to turn down a few US offers would have been ego-boosting.

[spork]

My advice is to give up on the idea of working in academia in the USA altogether.  While Oxford or the Sorbonne may generate vague name recognition among American academics, hardly anyone knows what Chulalongkorn or Thammasat are.  The only people who do work at universities like Princeton or Michigan, and those universities aren't going to hire anyone with an online Ph.D.  So essentially no one on a search committee is going to have any idea what you've been doing or how good you've been at doing it.  Your only possible route of entry into an American academic job is through a small podunk institution in the middle of nowhere that is desperate to hire someone, and/or as an adjunct, which is not financially viable for a person with a family.  Your kids will definitely not like being in such a situation after growing up abroad.  You won't either.

I think working for NGOs or the private sector, whether overseas or stateside, is a much better option for you.

[wutan]

I can symphatize with all of these, being a European postdoc myself and having looked for US tenure-track jobs this past season. I did get two on-campus interviews at good universities, but it seems that US candidates with the same amount of experience and credentials are doing much better. I am guessing it has something to do both with my non-US PhD and the fact that I am more costly to fly in for an interview.

In case I don't get an offer this year (still unknown in both cases), here are the things I am going to do to gear up for next year's job season:

1. Try to get a US postdoc position. If I can come to a prestigious place, it would put a US seal of approval on my skills. It would also mean less cost for universities to fly me in for interviews.

2. Work on my cover letter. I think I need to educate the SCs a little about my PhD-granting university and its ranking, and also highlight that I do have US academic experience.

3. Work on my letter writers. I would guess that US universities feel less worried if foreign candidates have American faculty members write letters of recommendations for them. Furthermore, for my non-American writers, I may have to educate them on what it means to write a letter of recommendation for a US position (as European letters tend to be a lot more downplayed, in my experience).

4. Have a US faculty member see my application material. As some have indicated, perhaps I am not selling myself properly according to the unwritten rules of faculty applications.

5. Schedule a US interview trip. To overcome budget-related problems, I will arrange to go to the US for a specific time period on my own money, and mention this in my cover letter. Then interested universities could pick up on this and schedule interviews around that period.

[illuminata]

Wutan has some good points there...you might also look into work with some of the many many NGOs based in the US with global focii and a business development agenda. There are lots of organizations with poverty reduction agendas that need local management. You could then use their stateside network to begin searching for adjunct positions here.

The main issue boils down to supply and demand. The US annually produces far more PhDs than it can absorb into university teaching posts (in almost any field). Thus, there is terrific competition and a person who has to be flown halfway round the globe for an interview is going to have great difficulty landing a job.