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[_ook_]

Kill it with fire!  Kill it with fire!

Ook not like fire.  Not taste good.

[femaestro]

Admittedly this one of my personal hobbyhorses, since I am one and caught considerable grief for it in graduate school (apparently ones intellectual curiosity should not extend to military service in a combat zone).  However, the question is not about me, but the new generations of recent service who are still feeling the sting of "psycho veteran" meme perpetuated in popular culture durng the Vietnam War (which has been over for quite some time now.) 

As a family member to numerous vets in all branches of the military, I think your comment might be a bit dated. 

I firmly support returning vets and no one I know under the age of 30 has a problem with people in the military.  I want as many people as possible to gain an education and if they want to teach, awesome!!!!! I think most people from my generation feel that the soldier is being taken for a rather unfortunate ride, if you will.  Many I know, are angry at the level of support our government gives our service men and women, rather than anger, or fear of the servicepeople themselves. We see them as poor, minority, and without other options. 

I personally am very proud of my ten cousins who are in the Navy, Marines, Air Force, and Army. 

[jonesey]

We see them as poor, minority, and without other options.

This, unfortunately, is how many view those who join the military.  It's an insulting and incorrect stereotype. 

[zarathustra]

Still read the title of this thread as the "Anti White Whale Movement" and think, geez, what's the problem with white whales? 

[scampster]

Still read the title of this thread as the "Anti White Whale Movement" and think, geez, what's the problem with white whales? 

I think you are confusing it with the Anti White Whale Movement thread:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,66405.0.html

[yellowtractor]

Still read the title of this thread as the "Anti White Whale Movement" and think, geez, what's the problem with white whales?  

I think you are confusing it with the Anti White Whale Movement thread:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,66405.0.html

Yes, sometimes life imitates art, after all.  I am so proud.

[rear_view_mirror]

One of the uses of the "diversity" mantra is that it gives a new college president something new to achieve. It makes him look modern, and proactive. He can try to make the student body and the faculty have the same racial composition that the world has, or a close facsimile thereof. This is what our college president is shooting for. Presumably, when that moment arrives, something intellectually magical is going to happen. Maybe we'll find out we're all underachievers, because we've been wasting time fixating on diversity.
The ultimate banality associated with this is "celebrating diversity." This is on a par with celebrating the fact that there is weather.
There's a great Smothers Brothers bit where Dick starts singing the old song "McNamara's Band" whereupon Tom interrupts him with "boy, you really stepped in it now! You're in a ton of trouble with material like that. I didn't hear about a Rabinowitz or a Suzuki." Something like that.

[larryc]

Presumably, when that moment arrives, something intellectually magical is going to happen.

And you won't even notice.

[rear_view_mirror]

Presumably, when that moment arrives, something intellectually magical is going to happen.

And you won't even notice.

The college I refer to had many American Caucasian students, Asian students, African American students, African students, Eastern European students, German and Scandinavian students, Israeli students, and many others in the 1990's when I studied there. (I found this to be most stimulating and interesting, but that is not the point.)
Sometime around 2000 they decided to start an office of diversity, with a growing staff, mission and growing visibilty.
Today, thanks to the office of diversity, the college has many American Caucasian students, Asian students, African American students, African students, Eastern European students, German and Scandinavian students, Israeli students, and many others. And a greater percentage of students needing scholarship assistance, to pay higher tuition, to fund a swelling beaurocracy.
There is a right amount of attention to pay to diversity; we have exceeded it.

[kedves]

There is a right amount of attention to pay to diversity; we have exceeded it.

The best time to close the door is immediately after I am safely inside.  Some people would say "after my group is safely inside," but I know I'm not part of any group.

[rear_view_mirror]

There is a right amount of attention to pay to diversity; we have exceeded it.

The best time to close the door is immediately after I am safely inside.  Some people would say "after my group is safely inside," but I know I'm not part of any group.

If I am unqualified, the best time to close the door is when I'm knocking on it.

[post_functional]

We see them as poor, minority, and without other options.

This, unfortunately, is how many view those who join the military.  It's an insulting and incorrect stereotype.  

You know, because one of my hobbies here on the fora is to point out false dichotomies, I'd add that it is possible for one to be poor, a minority, without other options, and deeply patriotic, dedicated, and motivated to serve.

My point being (1) of course there's an economic back-door draft; (2) economic motives for service aren't mutually exclusive with noble motives for service.

[daurousseau]

What are noble motives for joining the military? Please list a few.

[francishamit]

Noble motives for joining the military?

Well, for openers, every member of the U.S. Military takes an oath to "uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic".  That's sacred. Part of the DNA.   It used to be that serving officers didn't even vote, they were so apolitical and students at the Command and Staff College (all of whom are Majors or Lieutenant Colonels) are reminded that they are not allowed to pick and choose. It's all of it or none of it.  If you can't do that, then get out. 

Naturally, its' not a perfect system.  There are exceptions, just as there are in Academia, who don't want to play by the rules.  But there is a provision in the Constitution that limits the rights of free speech, etc, for soldiers.  When we had the "revolt of the Generals" during the Bush Administration, where flag rank officers spoke out against the War In Iraq, you will note that they were all retired from active service.  Even then, it was unprecedented and a gray area because any one of them could have been recalled to active duty.  But Bush Administration officials set themselves up for that by trying to vet flag rankers for their political views, trying to get people into the top rank who would go along with their extremism.  People who have spent a lifetime in service to the Nation are not going to buy into short term political goals.  Politicians think towards the next election.  The US Military thinks ahead decades to concepts like "The Army After Next"

Service to the nation, whatever form it takes, is a noble goal.  One of the "state rights" issues decided by the American Civil War was whether or not local politicians could hoard military forces for local protection.  Two Southern governors did that and it was one of the deciding factors that led to the South's defeat.  So we had National Guard troops in Iraq, unlike in Vietnam, where they were noticeable mostly by their absence.  The NG was regarded as a safe legal way to dodge service in the war zone.  (Sorry, this is a sore point with me.  I went though Basic Training with a whole bunch from the Iowa National Guard who bragged about it.)    The Army was structurally altered to prevent this happening again. 

You really need a military, you know.  Not just to fight wars, but for other emergency service.  Look at the recent earthquakes.  Haiti doesn't have a military of its own. Chile does.  There was looting in both places.  It didn't last long in Chile because troops were deployed.  Their earthquake was hundreds of times worse but their recovery will be easier because they have trained manpower and equipment for this purpose.  Most of it military.

No one gets rich in the military.  Civilian life is easier and pays better, always. To do it, you have to be  willing, when required, to give up even life itself.  For the abstract of our nation as expressed in the Constitution.

And that include the right for you to disagree with all of the above.       

[yellowtractor]

Eleven days, Francis?  It took you eleven days?

You're slipping.