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[beacon1]

but I'm not a racist, nor have I benefited in any way from my race.

(If  you are white, of course you have experienced myriad de facto benefits--just not the kind of benefits you're talking about here on the thread.)

De Facto - hmm... sounds like those are things that I received that I didn't know about. If I don't know about them and you can't tell me what they are... then how are you so sure that I benefited defacto... because of some book you read? You are suggesting you are more aware of my life and my experience than I am. If you were my therapist, I might agree -but you don't know me. You only know that I am white which tells you very little about my life.

[rodentmind]

but I'm not a racist, nor have I benefited in any way from my race.

(If  you are white, of course you have experienced myriad de facto benefits--just not the kind of benefits you're talking about here on the thread.)

De Facto - hmm... sounds like those are things that I received that I didn't know about. If I don't know about them and you can't tell me what they are... then how are you so sure that I benefited defacto... because of some book you read? You are suggesting you are more aware of my life and my experience than I am. If you were my therapist, I might agree -but you don't know me. You only know that I am white which tells you very little about my life.

"Some book read"? No offense, but I don't need to know you or anything about your life to know that if you are white, you benefit from it, just as I do, in small little ways you (and I do mean "you" specifically) wouldn't even notice, as you say, because you don't have any other frame of reference from which to view your situation. I could run through a list of probable situations most people find themselves in at one point or another from which you'd derive a benefit due to being white, or you could do that thinking yourself. You don't need a book to do it. You can play it out with a different set of binaries other that white/nonwhite, if that's a simpler place to start.

[beacon1]

but I'm not a racist, nor have I benefited in any way from my race.

(If  you are white, of course you have experienced myriad de facto benefits--just not the kind of benefits you're talking about here on the thread.)

De Facto - hmm... sounds like those are things that I received that I didn't know about. If I don't know about them and you can't tell me what they are... then how are you so sure that I benefited defacto... because of some book you read? You are suggesting you are more aware of my life and my experience than I am. If you were my therapist, I might agree -but you don't know me. You only know that I am white which tells you very little about my life.

"Some book read"? No offense, but I don't need to know you or anything about your life to know that if you are white, you benefit from it, just as I do, in small little ways you (and I do mean "you" specifically) wouldn't even notice, as you say, because you don't have any other frame of reference from which to view your situation. I could run through a list of probable situations most people find themselves in at one point or another from which you'd derive a benefit due to being white, or you could do that thinking yourself. You don't need a book to do it. You can play it out with a different set of binaries other that white/nonwhite, if that's a simpler place to start.

So life is unfair... There are folks smarter than me that benefit from their intelligence.. those more beautiful that benefit from their beauty... those more muscular... and the list goes on.

Are you trying to even out life so it is fair? I could see if I had gained some blatant advantage because of being white... but that was not the case, or at least not in my case.

You say there are subtle benefits that "I personally" have gained - name em'
Fact is, you are making guesses about benefits based on some study that you read that said "x" was probable given "y". Those same studies did not say "x" was certain given "y".

[acrimone]

I've gained all sorts of advantages because I'm white.

[spork]

I've gained all sorts of advantages because I'm white.

I've gained all sorts of advantages because I'm American.

[beacon1]

I've gained all sorts of advantages because I'm white.

Thought you were Hispanic? Think that counts as brown...

[onion]

I've gained all sorts of advantages because I'm white.

Thought you were Hispanic? Think that counts as brown...

Oh, never mind.

[engineer_adrift]

I believe the odds of selecting an all female group would be 144 to 1 providing there was an equal number of females to males in the selection pool.

The chance of getting "tails" six times in a row in the flip of a fair coin is one in sixty four.

This is true, but random selection from a finite group without replacement does not follow a binomial distribution, but a hypergeometric. therefore, both 1/144 and 1/64 are wrong, thought the latter is close. - DvF

It is impossible to calculate odds because the selection is not at random... there are obvious conscious & unsconcious biases that go into the selection.

1.  Note how carefully my statement was worded.  I said, "The chance of getting "tails" six times in a row in the flip of a fair coin is one in sixty four."  I said nothing about the chances involved in this sampling frame.

2.  One cannot do the hypergeometric calculation without knowing the size of the population.  For large populations with exactly even male/females, it will converge to the binomial distribution.  The actual probability from the hypergeometric is always less than the binomial approximation.  For example, if there are 6 men and 6 women, the chance fo randomly drawing 6 women is about 1 in 1000.  If there are 20 men and 20 women, the chance of randomly drawing 6 women is 1 in 100.  If there are an ifinite number of men and women, the chance is 1 in 64.

3.  Of course, the original committee selection was not random.  The point is to compare how unusual the selection is compared to a random draw.  Same idea behind disquaifying juries that are all white when you have a black defendant in a population with significant numbers of black potential jurors.

4.  The chances are high the beacon1 had a legitimate concern about the all-female seleciton committee, unless the faculty pool from which the committee  pool was drawn was overwhelmingly female, which presents its own issues.


Best wishes

[daniel_von_flanagan]

E_A is correct on all points (I just brought up the hypergrometric distribution on the grounds there was no reason to confuse the issue with something which is incorrect, no matter by how little). It is interesting that beacon1 reacted defensively as if these arguments were meant to oppose his point of view, when of course they support it.  (I do not agree with his general thesis that the University is anti-white-male but certainly a SC from a pool with a good proportion of both sexes should not be this homogeneous unless it is intentional.) - DvF

[larryc]

I've gained all kinds of advantages because I can fix a chain saw with a pocket knife.

And because I am white.

[crazybatlady]

I can't believe chainsaws are on this thread too.

Chainsaws are MINE I say, MINE.

cbl

[engineer_adrift]

E_A is correct on all points <snip> - DvF

Aaaaah.  Trust me, these words have never before appeared on CHE.

Thanks

[engineer_adrift]

If we can mention CHAINSAWS, how about COWBELL?

Best wishes

<clang!  clang!>

[dr_stones]

Barbecue.

On white bread.

[beacon1]

Barbecue.

On white bread.

"Master of drive-by witticisms."