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[au_fait]

You are so wrong. It's totally personal.

You don't know me. If you did, you would see that I am kind, generous, loyal, trustworthy, and compassionate. Not the evil villain your imagining at all.

It wouldn't be that you're representing yourself as an evil villain, right? No, it's our fault for perceiving you this way.

Hmm, interestingly familiar with the thought "if I don't get the job, it's her fault, not my own lack of (whatever)."

[joey_fan]

You make the assumption that whites are a homogeneous group. My life experiences are certainly different than other whites. Are my life and cultural experiences undervalued versus a Latina females.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear; I'm not implying that white Anglo-Americans are a homogeneous group (they certainly are not). My hypothetical example is just to say that the 'poor white vs. rich non-white' dichotomy overlooks many other intervening factors beyond $ or physical appearance that may play a role in any given search committee's decision process.

How is it worthwhile? Can you quantify this? If she is teaching Latin American history or Spanish perhaps. What if she teaches statistics?

Much of this depends on the field, I admit. Yes, if this hypothetical bicultural/bilingual Latina is teaching something like political science, international relations, linguistics, postcolonial history, or language classes that relate to Spanish-speaking cultures and/or Latin America, her language skils and relevant cultural background/knowledge would make her a highly qualified candidate and a logical choice.

Even if this hypotheical Latina teaches statistics though, I'd think there woud be qualitative advantages to having her on the faculty. I admit such things can't be easily quantified (particularly in the humanities, where I locate myself). One argument I've heard (from people in econ/business fields, in any case) is that having diverse faculty prepares students for the 'real world' of business interaction, when they must actively collaborate with people of different backgrounds, etc. But yeah, I suppose all this is intangible and unquantifiable.

[beacon1]

qualitative advantages to having her on the faculty.

qualitative advantages there could be qualitative advantages of a male so he could lift heavy boxes for the department.

I just think this opens the door for bigotry.

[abdbiz]

White men make very good cabana boys. Can be a little uptight, though.

Imagine if I said this about Jews, Blacks, Women, or Hispanics.

I know you are joking, but isn't it racist none the less?

I honestly dont know which issue people are speaking to when they speak about diversity. The Latin thing is what I cant get my mind around. Today this seems to mean south of the rio grande, but I consider myself Latin (Portuguese). I get racial diversity, I get gender diversity, but I dont get accent diversity. I know many Cubans, Argentinians, and Colombians that are whiter than me (and Im white).

[sweetwarrior]

er, actually there has been a lot of thought and consideration about 'diversity.' Have you inadvertently missed the last century or so of debate? But let me spell it out for you in very basic, general terms. Diversity is a relational concept. Individuals and groups define themeselves against other groups. We all have different attributes that make us diverse - race, gender, sexuality, class, education level and so on. We of course possess multiple attributes. In some contexts, these attributes are more salient than in others. People form stereotypes and prejudices based on these attributes. People discriminate against others based on these attributes. People build elaborate systems of power to discriminate against others - aparthied, segregation, patriarchy. Sometimes when these systems are threatened or challenged, the former power holders howl and protest, as the foundations holding up their power and privilege are no longer there. South Africa is a case in point: there were some people who left that country because of aparthied; others left because aparthied ended.

I have heard of this so called "anti-white male" movement and the notion that it is about punishing these white males. What puzzles me is that policies and practices designed to give dignity, and empower women etc is seen as a threat to men. Recognising diversity is not about punishing men. Nor is it about assimilating people into an existing power structure...its about changing the power structure. It is NOT about "bias" - it is about social disadvantage, it is about gatekeepers who hold power, who create cultures which 'outsiders' have no way of accessing.

We cannot examine diversity on a CASE BY CASE basis because disadvantage does not merely happen on a case by case basis - look at the statistics. Read through the data for NYC for example...http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/profiles.jsp?ma=5600 as you scroll down, what do you notice about incomes, home ownership and poverty rates?

That is one small snapshot of the social inequality faced by people.

The OP had a bad experience with a recent job search. I have also been on a recent job search. I couldn't help but notice the whole selection committee was made up of white men (a diverse group of men no less). How does that come close to being diverse....not one member out of six was a woman...opps I am plagiarizing OP's original words...and why OP, were the "odds of randomly selecting that group would have been 1 in 200 or so..." what does that say about your notions of your profession?

"Let me ask one question for all those pushing diversity... do you think that your university will one day select its sports teams by using the same criteria? I doubt it..."

"Where is the empirical evidence about what diversity actually improves?"

improves what? if you want bottom line profit driven answers, I suggest you look up the Business literature, including Human Resource Management. There is a lot of empirical evidence there.

"Is it just an undigested concept that is thrown out there to tug at heart strings and dig out repressed anger in those that have been victimized?"

this comment is very telling - one the one hand, it recognises that people have been "victimised" but on the other it betrays a profound lack of knowledge and insight into American history, and society at large today. Perhaps this lack of insight and deep thinking is reflected in the OP's work and that is why they didn't get the job.

[beacon1]

How does that come close to being diverse....not one member out of six was a woman...opps I am plagiarizing OP's original words...and why OP, were the "odds of randomly selecting that group would have been 1 in 200 or so..." what does that say about your notions of your profession?

My point was that the members seemed hypocritical asking questions about diversity although not having a diverse group.

We cannot examine diversity on a CASE BY CASE basis because disadvantage does not merely happen on a case by case basis - look at the statistics. Read through the data for NYC for example...http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/profiles.jsp?ma=5600 as you scroll down, what do you notice about incomes, home ownership and poverty rates?

You are dealing with averages... this does not speak to the plight of disadvantaged whites (certainly there are disadvantaged whites in these stats).

Recognising diversity is not about punishing men. Nor is it about assimilating people into an existing power structure...its about changing the power structure.

Nazism was also about changing a power structure. Germans had faced a depressed economy and blamed the Jews. Certainly some Jews were to blame. If you had looked at the average incomes of Jews in Germany I'm sure it would have cast a bad light on the race in the 1930's. Does that mean all Jews deserved poor treatment.

Changing power structure is just what I'm referring to. White males need to go to the back of the bus regardless of circumstance. I'm just asking for a fair review of circumstance.

[aardvark]

Let's not reject the OP out of hand.  White males really have power only in a few select areas-- they are clearly ghettoized.  Aside from the top jobs in government, law, business, the professions, and academia, they just can't catch a break anywhere else.

Sign me,

Employed White Male

[onion]

quote]

Nazism was also about changing a power structure. Germans had faced a depressed economy and blamed the Jews. Certainly some Jews were to blame. If you had looked at the average incomes of Jews in Germany I'm sure it would have cast a bad light on the race in the 1930's. Does that mean all Jews deserved poor treatment.

Changing power structure is just what I'm referring to. White males need to go to the back of the bus regardless of circumstance. I'm just asking for a fair review of circumstance.
[/quote]

This is a poor historical analogy.  And a loathsome one, at that.  To suggest that AA/EEO attempts to right the historical wrongs experienced by women, gays, people of color, etc. in ACADEMIA is akin to Nazism?  Maybe this is why you didn't get the job...

[aardvark]

White men make very good cabana boys. Can be a little uptight, though.

Imagine if I said this about Jews, Blacks, Women, or Hispanics.

I know you are joking, but isn't it racist none the less?

I dunno if it is.  But no matter how hard I try I can't force myself to be offended by it.  Seriously.

yours,

White Man

[jackie_d]

Certainly some Jews were to blame. If you had looked at the average incomes of Jews in Germany I'm sure it would have cast a bad light on the race in the 1930's. Does that mean all Jews deserved poor treatment.

You really don't know what are you talking about. That's why you didn't get the job.

[onion]

Why do white men so badly want to claim racism? Don't you have enough? Have you ever really, truly experienced racism? Discrimination? I mean, really???  Let me give you an example: I am in a gay, inter-racial relationship.  I just had a real estate agent say, to my face, today, that they don't rent to "our kind" in this building.  Then she gave me an apologetic smile and patted my arm.  This is racism and discrimination.  This is not the same thing as not getting an academic job.  Moreover, my experience today, and yours on the job market, is not even in the same UNIVERSE as what happened to the Jews, the Romany people, Poles, gays, etc. during the Holocaust.

[splinter]

beacon1, anyone who makes the kind of argument as you would surely be on my "top most dangerous academics" list.

[aardvark]

Why do white men so badly want to claim racism? Don't you have enough? Have you ever really, truly experienced racism? Discrimination? I mean, really???  Let me give you an example: I am in a gay, inter-racial relationship.  I just had a real estate agent say, to my face, today, that they don't rent to "our kind" in this building.  Then she gave me an apologetic smile and patted my arm.  This is racism and discrimination.  This is not the same thing as not getting an academic job.  Moreover, my experience today, and yours on the job market, is not even in the same UNIVERSE as what happened to the Jews, the Romany people, Poles, gays, etc. during the Holocaust.

What the White Men need is our own Marcus Garvey to lead us back to Europe since we are prisoners in America.

[illuminata]

You know, I am beginning to suspect that the OP is Ben Benaker in disguise.

[splinter]

It is also very ironic that despite the massive historical project to construct "whiteness" in America (homogenizing the diversity of groups who had immigrated from Western Europe to establish one, singular sense of "the American"), "whites" now are complaining of unfairly being lumped-together.