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[jackit]

Perhaps you would be more entertained by the Yak Woman, the Two-headed Boy, or a Skee Ball tournament, after you mosey on down the Midway.  People here ,in the main, like to argue with facts and tend to at least feign respect for the beliefs of others, so this probably isn't the most congenial environment for you.

Are you the Yak Woman or the Two-headed Boy?  Certainly you are not the fact based Woman.

This space is for discussions of politics, goldstein.

Please respect that.

[goldstein]

Fair enough.  I would be interested in any explanation why McCain absented himself from a vote on the extension of veterans benefits.

[jobhunter06]

quote: "Interesting. You are moral so God won't torch your a** for eternity. Neat. I'm moral because I have empathy for other humans, as well as other beings."

Perhaps my earlier post was unclear or I left some issues unresolved. At any rate, I think you have misunderstood me on some of this. I actually don't think I am particularly all that moral of a person. I've certainly got a number of flaws and limitations. If I am saved it will be by God's grace though Christ, not because I am a "good person," which I most definitely am not. I'm glad you have empathy for other humans. I do too. Without my faith, however, it won't make any sense whatsoever for me to do so. As with Nietzsche and Doestovesky, I wouldn't believe in morality at all, or at least not in any meaningful one.

quote: "I realize that the majority of Americans believe in God. I'm also aware that a large number of them believe every word of the Bible is true. That doesn't make it any less a reliance on faith, which by definition is that which can not be proven."

I believe that there is a logical case to be made for Christianity. But yes, at the end of the day one must rely on faith. Then again, I think this is the case with most "ultimate things" or big metaphysical issues. Human beings simply are limited in our knowledge to not go by faith to a certain extent.

quote: "And so yes, back to my phrase "the reality on the ground" that seemed to bug you so much. The reality on the ground is that people suffer, and a lot of it is unnecessary and happens because so-called Christians, as well as those of other faiths, choose to judge others instead of leaving that to God, think it's fine to go invade other countries, and ignore the Christian call of charity. Of course, there are immoral non-Christians and non-Theists of all stripes, as well, but as you point out, we're in the minority."

I believe that human beings suffer because of sin, because ours is a fallen world. Yes, Christians (myself included) do often sin and do some horrible things. So do all other human beings, including non-Theists. That ultimately is the way of the world, "the reality on the ground."
       I'm sure the above may be more than some here want to hear about religion. In the end, we have to learn to live with each others differences, as sharp as they may be at times. Anyway, perhaps the conversation should be steered back to the purpose of this thread, politics.

jh06

[goldstein]

Since I have been reminded that this tread is political, let me ask you jho6, is this war in Iraq right, just, a holy commandment. Pick your term and defend it.

[genespleen2]

Fair enough.  I would be interested in any explanation why McCain absented himself from a vote on the extension of veterans benefits.

You probably should start first with some observations of your own on that.  What do you think?

[helpful]

quote: "If you had ever set foot in a Catholic church you would (or should) know that Catholics who disagree with the church on abortion are allowed to take communion, unlike, say, Catholics who have divorced and remarried, so apparently the church disagrees with you on whether they're "bad Catholics." And call me crazy, but I'm going to defer to the Catholic church on that, rather than to some anonymous cretin on a web chatboard."

Well, following its section on intentional homicide, "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" 2270-2275 discusses abortion. Abortion is called "gravely contrary to the moral law." Moreover, it states "formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life." So yes, please do defer to the Catholic Church's views on the gravely immoral nature of abortion. And there are priests and bishops who will not give communion to politicians who openly support abortion.

jh06

Have you ever read what you wrote? The above doesn't apply to people merely support the right to choice with reference to abortion? Verbal support or even passing a law is not 'cooperating in an abortion'.

[tenured_feminist]

Fair enough.  I would be interested in any explanation why McCain absented himself from a vote on the extension of veterans benefits.

McCain's been missing a lot of votes lately. Those fundraisers are tough to schedule. I guess the Dems have better planes or maybe schedulers.

[spork]

Looks like both candidates have surrounded themselves with dirty and/or incompetent advisors:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/attacking-on-loans/?scp=3&sq=Obama%20mortgage&st=cse

[dolljepopp]

Timothy Noah at Slate.com on Webb as a potential Obama running mate.
 
Regardless of what one thinks of Slate and/or Noah, I think he makes some good points. A loose cannon would not help the ticket.

Plus, as I have said ad nauseum, I don't like the idea of giving up Democratic Senate seats in Republican states. I'd really like to see a Democratic president with a substantial Democratic congressional majority.

[spork]

Even though the current Congress has approval ratings that are even lower than Bush's?

[prytania3]

Is Obama a Shiite or a Sunni?  Oh I forgot, McCain is what, a Baptist?  I gotta keep this straight, who burned Anne Bradstreet?  Was Ulysses S. Grant a Catholic or a Methodist?  Eisenhower was what, a Lutheran?  Nixon, I got that, he was Episcopalian, right?  Episcopalians are cool, I have problems with Presbyterians, and Orthodox of course but that goes without saying.

Alternately, I don't give a f*** what you believe.

Helloooo. Nixon was a Quaker.

[anonynony]

So about this Vice Presidential thing, I've been a strong Hillary Clinton supporter, but I'll vote for Obama. I just hope his supporters, the ones who act as though he's the new Messiah and a rock star all rolled into one will leave me alone. I don't think I want her to be his VP. I think her talents could be better used in the Senate elsewhere and that's certainly not going to earn my vote. The whole "he's nowhere near as scary as McCain" factor  takes care of that.

A lot of people have been including Bayh on their list; I'd agree if it were Birch Bayh not Evan.

[helpful]

No reason to have someone from Indiana on the ticket. You need geographic variety on the ticket.

[helpful]

Is Obama a Shiite or a Sunni?  Oh I forgot, McCain is what, a Baptist?  I gotta keep this straight, who burned Anne Bradstreet?  Was Ulysses S. Grant a Catholic or a Methodist?  Eisenhower was what, a Lutheran?  Nixon, I got that, he was Episcopalian, right?  Episcopalians are cool, I have problems with Presbyterians, and Orthodox of course but that goes without saying.

Alternately, I don't give a f*** what you believe.

Helloooo. Nixon was a Quaker.

Funny, most Quakers I know were on the left of the political spectrum especially in terms of war. Nixon was Quaker all right, but the ones in Whittier were more on the right of the political spectrum. The food writer M. F. K. Fisher wrote some wonderful stuff about growing up in Whittier. Worth reading to get an idea of where Nixon came from.

[t_r_b]

No reason to have someone from Indiana on the ticket. You need geographic variety on the ticket.

Right. Just like Clinton-Gore and Bush-Cheney.