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[pyrope]

What other career field, anywhere, offers someone's SO a job as well? 

I think it is fairly common for employers in many career fields to assist a job search for an SO.  In what other career field, anywhere, is it considered normal for couples to live in different states? 
And, why is there such a pervasive assumption that hiring an academic couple is such a bad thing for a university?  It requires some work and some political capital, but in the long run it seems to me that hiring a happy, appreciative couple would be a boon to a university.

[jonesey]

What other career field, anywhere, offers someone's SO a job as well? 

I think it is fairly common for employers in many career fields to assist a job search for an SO.  In what other career field, anywhere, is it considered normal for couples to live in different states? 
And, why is there such a pervasive assumption that hiring an academic couple is such a bad thing for a university?  It requires some work and some political capital, but in the long run it seems to me that hiring a happy, appreciative couple would be a boon to a university.

Sorry, let me clarify.  I don't think it's bad, it just seems that the attitude is one of "Well, I'll work for you, but you've got to get my SO a job, too."  That just seems a bit, well, presumptuous to me. 

I agree, it's not normal for spouses to live states apart.  However, when one spouse takes a job far away, the other usually has to find a new job.  This is why many people don't relocate. 

[seniorscholar]

Of course it is not at all uncommon for spouses to live in different states (corporations, as well as the military, still move management and professional employees around with great abandon, evidently still believing that each is trailed by a non-employed spouse -- but a spouse with a career at a reasonably high level [medical practice, law firm, nonprofit directorship, school superintendent, university] is not generally willing to pick up and move every 18 months or so). In addition, many spouses (including my former son-in-law) are on the road five days a week and at home only on weekends, and those folks are definitely not trailed by a spouse in each motel.

Why are so many academics so completely out of touch with the real world at a reasonable professional level (which, like it or not, we have entered)?

[case_insensitive]

Why are so many academics so completely out of touch with the real world at a reasonable professional level (which, like it or not, we have entered)?

That there is the $64 question!

[googly_eyes]

A spousal hire may or may not be good for the university, but what about the question of fairness to other candidates?  For many academics on the job market, there may be only a handful of suitable jobs each year in the entire country.  Why should somebody get to take one of those jobs away without going through the same channels everybody else has to go through?  Even if a "new" job is "created", that still takes away resources and may reduce the number of future hires that can be made.  It is unfortunate if the members of an academic couple have to live apart, but I would say that that is, sadly, a personal problem and not one that universities should necessarily try to remedy at somebody else's expense.

[pyrope]

Even if a "new" job is "created", that still takes away resources and may reduce the number of future hires that can be made.  It is unfortunate if the members of an academic couple have to live apart, but I would say that that is, sadly, a personal problem and not one that universities should necessarily try to remedy at somebody else's expense.

I have a hard time with this argument because two academics will take two jobs away from the market regardless of whether they are at the same university or not.  Whether you are competing directly or indirectly with that individual, you are still competing with him or her.

I accept the argument that an SO hire is a hard sell if the individual is poorly qualified for the university, but if the individual is well qualified then why should we be against it?  I feel like the overarching vibe assumes that the trailing partner must be lesser qualified, and I think that is rarely the case.

[tangerinedream]

I don't think it's that big of a problem unless they both work for the same department, which is not uncommon at all in my experience.

I am a graduate student in a department where there are many married people, some in the same division. Some are in supervisory roles over their spouses. This creates all sorts of uncomfortable situations for students and other faculty. Who are we supposed to go to with issues about the spouse of the division chair? What are we supposed to say when one spouse suggests their partner as a good choice for our dissertation committee, and we feel otherwise? The marriage of two of our faculty members is now part of the alchemy of our small division. There is no escaping it. A big-name prestige hire whose wife was given a post-doc (taken away from current graduate students) and then a faculty position a year later after going through a sham "hiring process."

There's the professionalism argument, and there's also the ethics argument. Every time a spouse is hired, our university's nepotism policy is violated because the spouse is favored over the pool of other candidates solely because of a pre-existing marital relationship.

Personally, although I know and love many partners-in-academe, I wish those involved would give more thought to the radiating impact of their marriage on students and other faculty members and try a bit harder to consider the ethics of spousal hires.

[brunhilde]

Even if a "new" job is "created", that still takes away resources and may reduce the number of future hires that can be made.  It is unfortunate if the members of an academic couple have to live apart, but I would say that that is, sadly, a personal problem and not one that universities should necessarily try to remedy at somebody else's expense.

I have a hard time with this argument because two academics will take two jobs away from the market regardless of whether they are at the same university or not.  Whether you are competing directly or indirectly with that individual, you are still competing with him or her.

I accept the argument that an SO hire is a hard sell if the individual is poorly qualified for the university, but if the individual is well qualified then why should we be against it?  I feel like the overarching vibe assumes that the trailing partner must be lesser qualified, and I think that is rarely the case.

I think this is unfair because the other applicants can't do anything to make themselves more competitive with spousal hires. Sometimes spouses could be really good hires on their own and could have earned the position without the spouse and so this would not be a problem.

Do institutions also give tenure to spouses? It seems the logical result of giving TT jobs to spouses (which is what this couple demanded). If not, you will lose them anyway in a few years. If so, please tell me now. I will stop wasting my time researching and publishing and start flirting with some big name prof.

[case_insensitive]

Do institutions also give tenure to spouses? It seems the logical result of giving TT jobs to spouses (which is what this couple demanded). If not, you will lose them anyway in a few years. If so, please tell me now. I will stop wasting my time researching and publishing and start flirting with some big name prof.

There's an unusual strategy! :o)

[jonesey]

am a graduate student in a department where there are many married people, some in the same division. Some are in supervisory roles over their spouses.

Isn't this illegal, uh, everywhere?  It is in every private company and government institution I've worked for.  Why would this be okay in an academic setting?

[notaprof]

am a graduate student in a department where there are many married people, some in the same division. Some are in supervisory roles over their spouses.

Isn't this illegal, uh, everywhere?  It is in every private company and government institution I've worked for.  Why would this be okay in an academic setting?

I don't think it is technically illegal or every family owned business would be in trouble.  But there is certainly a high possibility of something unethical happening and is just a very bad idea.

[sibyl]

It's been a matter of policy at every institution I've worked at to keep people from reporting to their own spouses, but not a matter of law.

Come to think of it, I once worked for a woman who worked for her husband.  The president must have approved that as an exception.  But when the husband took a job at another institution, he did not (could not?) hire the wife there.

[tangerinedream]

am a graduate student in a department where there are many married people, some in the same division. Some are in supervisory roles over their spouses.

Isn't this illegal, uh, everywhere?  It is in every private company and government institution I've worked for.  Why would this be okay in an academic setting?

It gets off on a technicality. Faculty don't officially "work for" their division/department chairs because promotions are voted on by all faculty. Spouses step outside the room when partner promotion votes are taken, so all is, um, well. That's the ethics justification.

[taormina]

 
<<This is why many people don't relocate.>> 


Agree. I may sound horrifyingly conservative to the audiences on this forum - no, backward is probably a better shot - but feminism (yes, a good thing in many respects) brought with it a series of dilemmas which people today simply do not want to deal with.

The dual, high-power, high-status, perfect situation, career marriage is a junk myth. Or just non-marriage. Whether it is the woman or the man (or one of the men or one of the women), someone MUST mind the darn domestic sphere, at least part of the time and at least for the sake of staying human.

I have a hard time understading couples who are formed based on the understanding that they will each strive to be succesful as heck in their field.
One of them needs to take it a notch down, one way or the other. I am not implying that the person in question should be the female. But when there is a marriage (let alone if there are children involved) one of the two needs to keep it a little lower key with the grandiose career aspirations.

This is the reason why upon graduation I refused to take on the national academic job market and decided to wait in an interim OK job until an academic opportunity came up in the area.

These constant relocations, commuter marriages (God, what a concept) and ego-butressing career ambitions are simply killing the humanity in all of us.
And I don't care whether we are talking about men or women.
 

[wildwest]

Thanks, Taormina.  Well said.

And for what exactly is all of this striving to be the star, the most successful?  Academic work isn't brain surgery and it isn't politics.  Okay, yes, academics educate future generations.  But as someone once said, "that cost is so high because the stakes are so incredibly low."  People who sacrifice the person they love, their families, their free time, their health (and mental health) for a job (and people, it's just a job) are going to end up miserable indeed.

But, then again, I prefer the working world outside of the academy.  It is much more sane and the people nicer.