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[zharkov]

This poll was inspired by a discussion about U Phoenix in the Classroom forum, which then morphed into a discussion of Harvard vs. online schools.

[drdirt55]

Graduate or undergraduate? 

[mountain_ivy]

When they need the $$$$.

[mrbreeze]

The answer is now. It already exists.

Harvard University my friends: http://extension.harvard.edu/ offers an entire degree onlne: Master of Liberal Arts in Information Technology

So, what do I get?

Mr.Breeze

[zharkov]

The answer is now. It already exists.

Harvard University my friends: http://extension.harvard.edu/ offers an entire degree onlne: Master of Liberal Arts in Information Technology

So, what do I get?

Mr.Breeze

My appreciation....

How about an undergrad degree that the school already offers in a traditional format?

[zharkov]

Graduate or undergraduate? 

Let's say an undergraduate degree that the school already offers in a traditional classroom format.

Or even a grad degree that is currently offered in the regular grad school.

(Mr. Breeze had an example of Harvard's extension school master of liberal arts in extension studies degree, but "master of liberal arts" means "night school" at Harvard.  This extension school has different programs and admissions requirements than the "regular" Harvard.)

[twofish]

(Mr. Breeze had an example of Harvard's extension school master of liberal arts in extension studies degree, but "master of liberal arts" means "night school" at Harvard.  This extension school has different programs and admissions requirements than the "regular" Harvard.)

Personally, I believe that within a generation, the Harvard Extension school will be more important than the "regular" Harvard.  If the people at Harvard are having anything like the conversations I've heard at MIT, then I wouldn't be surprised if people are thinking about turning Harvard into a brand like Apple or Microsoft, and are thinking seriously about how to mass market a Harvard education without devaluing the brand.

The work at the Extension School makes sense in that vein.

[zharkov]

(Mr. Breeze had an example of Harvard's extension school master of liberal arts in extension studies degree, but "master of liberal arts" means "night school" at Harvard.  This extension school has different programs and admissions requirements than the "regular" Harvard.)

Personally, I believe that within a generation, the Harvard Extension school will be more important than the "regular" Harvard.  If the people at Harvard are having anything like the conversations I've heard at MIT, then I wouldn't be surprised if people are thinking about turning Harvard into a brand like Apple or Microsoft, and are thinking seriously about how to mass market a Harvard education without devaluing the brand.

I think the idea about the Harvard brand and going online is very interesting, but what would be their incentive or motivation for doing this?

Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but I think Harvard Extension is mostly there b/c they want to make themselves feel that they are doing their bit to let the hoi poloi hobnob with the swells.  It is a fine continuing ed operation, but they could have easily made it much more extensive, opened satellites in the suburbs, etc. etc. if they really wanted to tap into that market.

[twofish]

I think the idea about the Harvard brand and going online is very interesting, but what would be their incentive or motivation for doing this?

Because at some point they will be eaten alive if they don't, and they will be forced to change or die.  Since being founded in 1636, Harvard has gone through a number of radical institutional changes, and fitting into the online world will be just another one of those changes.

The analogy that is useful is that right now a Harvard education is like a big gas-guzzling car with tail fins, the hottest new thing in 1955, but if you look at it from 1975, it looks old and antiquated.  The markers that define "high class" now will probably look very antiquated to the next generation.

Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but I think Harvard Extension is mostly there b/c they want to make themselves feel that they are doing their bit to let the hoi poloi hobnob with the swells.  It is a fine continuing ed operation, but they could have easily made it much more extensive, opened satellites in the suburbs, etc. etc. if they really wanted to tap into that market.

They don't really want to tap that market, but I think that they are going to be dragged kicking and screaming into that market.  The Extension School is considered low-class because it doesn't bring in the money, but I think at some point Harvard is going to face the choice between either massively expanding the Extension School or else ceding that market to someone else and losing institutional relevance.

I don't have any institutional connection to Harvard, so I don't know much about the politics.  I do know something about the institutional politics of MIT, and I have a lot of crazy ideas about how MIT's role in the 21st century, which are largely being ignored.  There are a few visionary professors there that see the future coming, but institutionally, no one is going to do anything fundamentally different unless they are in a "change or die" situation.  But the "change or die" situation will come, and right now I'm trying to get things organized enough so that when the crisis hits, I'll be one of the few people in the room that has any clue what to do about it.

The big thing that I think that MIT needs is an "Academic Liasion Office" which is modeled after the "Industrial Liasion Office".

[zharkov]

I don't have any institutional connection to Harvard, so I don't know much about the politics.  I do know something about the institutional politics of MIT, and I have a lot of crazy ideas about how MIT's role in the 21st century, which are largely being ignored.  There are a few visionary professors there that see the future coming, but institutionally, no one is going to do anything fundamentally different unless they are in a "change or die" situation.  But the "change or die" situation will come, and right now I'm trying to get things organized enough so that when the crisis hits, I'll be one of the few people in the room that has any clue what to do about it.

Twofish, I think you're way in front of the curve here, and your insight could very well come to pass.  If you are familiar with scenario planning, one thing that serves as an indicator of a particular scenario actually becoming realized is when a certain key milestone is reached.  I think that having an ivy offer a 100 pct online program that (more or less) duplicates an existing classroom program would be such a marker.  My guess is that the powers that be at Harvard will wait until another ivy launches such an online program; until then it will be business as usual.
   

[mrbreeze]

I would be surprised if Harvard did this for the money.

I also doubt that tuition is the largest portion of Harvard's wealth. Tuition and fees may significantly help in their operating annual budget but in terms of wealth, endowments and gift giving make the difference in Ivys.

I was also under the impression that on-line programs from "traditional" brick-and-mortar institutions are not profitable endeavors, unlike traditional non-brick-and-mortar institutions (i.e. Univ of Phoenix).  Isn't it true that traditional institutions jumped on the bandwagon ear,ly on and slowly abandon distance learning as not profitable?

I may have the wrong perception...

Mr. Breeze

[zharkov]

I would be surprised if Harvard did this for the money.

I also doubt that tuition is the largest portion of Harvard's wealth. Tuition and fees may significantly help in their operating annual budget but in terms of wealth, endowments and gift giving make the difference in Ivys.

Mr. Breeze

Harvard's endowment is the largest in the US and worth billions. Some people claim that Harvard could stop charging tuition and still be able to function just fine. That's probably an exaggeration, but they don't need to consider expanding programs as (just) a money making thing.

[minor_t]

It's about enlarging the pool of potential students without the need for more physical space.  I don't know if the online programs are more profitable, but they draw students who wouldn't or couldn't be F2F students.  A university can increase the student body (and collect tuition) without building new buildings or dorms or parking lots or student centers, and without hiring additional groundskeepers or other support personnel.  In effect, it is more cost-effective if not more profitable.  I suspect that more of the money goes directly into education rather than support services, but I don't know of any studies to support that.

For Phoenix, it's also about customer service.  Without the bureaucracy of traditional Admissions processes, a student can enroll with a credit card.  (Don't flame me, Phoenicians - I know that's an oversimplification but not by much.)  Because Phoenix and Streyer, etc. save on the physical plant and offer only profitable programs, they invest a lot in nice furniture and computers, and students feel that they are getting "the best."  The traditional campuses are taking lessons, and some offer in-state tuition to out-of-state students in online programs, further enlarging the pool of candidates for a program.

As long as there is one potential student in the outer reaches of the world who has the money and the time, but not the physical access to a campus, there will be pressure to build online programs. 

mt

[drdirt55]

I found this article that might interest you.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/elearning/?article=IvyLeagueOnline

[zharkov]

I found this article that might interest you.
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/elearning/?article=IvyLeagueOnline

Thanks for the link.  From the info there, I would have to say that the first online degree from an ivy will probably be via Teachers College Columbia.

http://www.tc.columbia.edu/academic/ctsc/masters_online.asp

The degree is an MA in computing in teaching and duplicates a classroom program of that name.  The program is waiting for NY state approval.