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[yamalen]

I would like your opinion on the better degree for me to study for now in hopes of teaching in an American college or university in 5 year's time.  The circumstances I am facing are as follows:  I am living in Japan teaching 6-10 University English (EFL) classes part time.  I hope to return to the US in 5 years (I will be 49 then) and hope to get a full time position as an ESL/BSW instructor.  The reason I am concerned with which of the two above degrees to seek is due to my desire to teach BSW students at the same college as a half time member of the Social Work and ESL departments. 

I have an MSW and 10 years clinical experience stateside.  But, I have no social work teaching experience.  For this reason, I have wondered if an MEd would help me get a leg up on the competition for the BSW teaching position while at the same time affording me the Masters in English education that is now required by most University ESL programs.

Otherwise, I would simply go for the TESL degree at a well known ESL online school and hope for the best with my MSW and no teaching experience.  IF such a half/half position were to exist, which degree do you think the school would consider more valuable?  Thanks for your time and consideration.

[roubai]

There are a lot of people with MATESOL degrees these days (and most of the positions that I have seen do NOT call for MEd degrees, but either MATESOL/MATESL or MA in English with TESOL emphasis/option/what have you). Depending on where you live, there's a lot of competition for college-level and CC jobs (to the extent that I've been told "expect 5-7 years doing part-time/adjunct work stateside before you land a full-time job"). Have you looked at the listings for the geographical areas you're considering? What do those jobs require?

I can't comment on the situation for social work teaching, though. And I don't know about the status of online programs in general with TESOL hiring committees, but for those who hold to the irrational prejudice against all online programs, they have their pick of people who did in-person programs. So I'd hazard a guess that it's minimally a slight disadvantage, but don't quote me on that.

Good luck!

P. S. This question is probably better suited for another forum, since you are asking about your job prospects in the US, not overseas.

[just_dave]

Yamalen, I'm also in Japan (10 years here after 2 in Mexico and 12 in the Middle East).  All of this EFL/EAP/ESP experience was at the university level.  Unlike most EFL professionals here, I started out with a BA and MA in (Applied) Linguistics before starting my overseas career.  Prior to heading overseas I had taught in Adult Ed ESL programs and at univeristy IEP's in California.  I also now have a Ph.D. (Communication Studies).  I currently teach part-time in a respected MATESOL program (actually an M.Ed.) in addition to my home university where I teach applied linguistics.  I ofter these "credentials" to contextualize my advice below.

So here it is:  Moving back to the the US and hoping to find a full-time (with benefits) job teaching ESL is a long-shot at best.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not like there are jobs just waiting for you.  As the previous poster said, if you WERE to get a full-time position, it would very likely only be after 5 or more years of adjuncting, ie. "paying your dues." Employers in the US do not, I believe, place much value in overseas EFL teaching experience.  And they may be right to feel like this.  The ESL context in the US is radically different than the EFL context and particularly the EFL situation at most Japanese universities.

The great majority of full-time ESL positions in the US are at the CC level.  And search committees are probably getting 100-300 applications for every job announced.  All of these applicants will have an MA/M.Ed. in TESOL or Linguistics and a significant number will also have a Ph.D.  The Ph.D. is not necessarily the deciding factor though.  In many cases you will be competing with an "inside" candidate who has spent years languishing in the system hoping to one day land a full time position.  This person will be an "expert" at a specific job that you (or I) may honestly know nothing about.  How are you, for example, at writing specific learning outcomes for a state regulated skills-based curriculum?  How are your skills at teaching adult literacy, since this is a large part of the job? What do you know about state-mandated standards?  Can you run a reading-based CALL class?  Sure you (or I) can learn, but there's probably already a candidate who has actually already been doing this for several years.  The search committee is required by law to publically announce the position even if they already know who they are going to hire.  It's not unusual for CC search committees to ask 10 or more candidates to come for an "interview" at their own expense only to run through a legally mandated set of questions -- and then go ahead and pick the inside candidate.

What I'm saying here is that whether you get an MA or an M.Ed (in TESOL) won't have the slightest impact on your prospects for landing a full-time ESL position.  Bear in mind also that many of the applicants will have an MA from a traditional campus-based program (with a full thesis required) and that many search committees are still highly suspicious of online MAs.  So when you're shopping around for an MA program I'd strongly suggest that you look for a well-known US university that offers both a campus-based or "distance" degree with the same basic requirements for both. Well-known "online-only" programs might not get you very far.

So get the very best, most solid, MA (of any flavor) you can and start studying up now on the realities of ESL teaching in the US.  Get yourself up to speed on on the theory and methodology of "skills-based education" and make sure your MA has a literacy/writing focus becuase this is what US ESL programs working primarily with an immigrant populations need.  Getting a full-time ESL position in the US is not an impossible goal but don't expect it to be easy, or to happen immediately.  You say you'll be 49 when you make your move (I'm 50).  You might not be able to land a full-time position until you're 55.  Sorry I can't be a bit more encouraging but it's important to be realistic.

[just_dave]

Let me add that your MSW (Masters in Social Work?) may be a bit more marketable in the US than an MATESOL in terms of full-time jobs.  But maybe not at the CC level in terms of teaching SW courses.  But I don't know much about that field so won't venture anything further.

Many university IEPs in the US are in rather desperate straits at the moment since overseas student enrollment has dropped significantly due to the post 9/11 atmosphere where there is more fear on the part of foreign students and greater hassles involved in getting a student visa.  And IEPs are a business pure and simple, if they don't pay their own way, they get cut.  And this can only be bad things for teachers -- for example more "adjunct" staff who the administration can get rid of the moment enrollment drops. 

BTW, this question gets discussed a lot over on the forums on Dave's ESL Cafe.  Seems there are quite a few expats wanting to "come in from the cold."

[yamalen]

Dear Just_Dave and Roubai,

Thank you both very much for your feedback about the prospects of landing a full time ESL teaching position at a US CC, college or University.  I understand that the MA/MEd is not the critical factor, but rather the demand for such positions is high, the number of adjuncts are many and the wait time is long.  I assume from what you are saying that doing part time work at several colleges in the US is no better financially or satisfaction-wise than doing so here in Japan. 

I have several friends who are quite optimistic about ESL teaching in their home country - Canada.  I wonder if the job environment there could be very different from the US.  For instance, they are getting a lot of foreign students right now.  Perhaps these students have found Canada more inviting than the US these days...

I have not looked enough at teaching social work at the college level, but many BSW/MSW programs are fully stocked with PhDs.  BSW-only programs have MSWs teaching there. 

Perhaps I could think about a DSW or PhD in Social Work.  To be honest, I have little knowledge of the kinds of curriculum issues you described, such as CALL or literacy.  This is also not my area of expertise.  I am really teaching English to get teaching experience and because I choose to live in Japan right now.  ESL just kind of came my way.  I like it, but I didn't realize it had become such a detailed specialty in the US.   

I will check out the social work situation more thoroughly. I just got the impression in MSW school that the full time teachers were very steeped in either clinical or theoretical social work.  Perhaps teaching BSWs might prove more my speed.

Thanks again for your help and good luck in your teaching work, just_dave.

[willow]

Yamalen,

I have been in the Social Work field for about 13 years. I have a Master's & Ph.D. in social work. And I have been reading about the teaching positions in this field for about 7 or 8 years. So, my 'intel' suggests that having a Ph.D. in social work (if you REALLY want to get a t-t position in social work) is more important than the ESL/MEd degree. Most colleges/universities require a Ph.D. to teach; some of the smaller, more rural colleges require only a Master's, but usually state a preference for a Ph.D. And, in hindsight, I would have gotten a Ph.D. in sociology - that way I could teach in social work and sociology. Now my teaching positions are almost exclusively limited to social work, which I have grown less fond of over the years. So, I would concur with you that considering a Ph.D. in social work (or sociology or psychology or something related) would be more valuable to you.

willow