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[losemygrip]

Folks, it's OK to ask questions.  Just don't ask ridiculous questions.  "Isn't there a train?" to the committee at tiny-town U.  "Now, just where ARE you?" in response to our call responding to your application.   Also, a lot of it is in the attitude.  There's a kind of haughty "hauteur" (I guess those two words are related!) I associate with divas, as though they're WAY too good for anything they're seeing.  This is conveyed through sullen expressions, raised eyebrows, smug laughter, sidelong glances, and long discourses about how fabulous Paris, London, New York, or their own research is.  Also, there's the "theory mavens:" this breed of diva considers his/her highly abstract thinking as so vastly superior to anything so mundane as practical problem-solving or traditional methods that they display condescending surprise that you would even deign to consider such a thing.  Oh--and the other big diva thing is the complete lack of flexibility.  "I can only come on this day and time."  "No, I can't eat in a restaurant where meat is served."  "I can't do my presentation unless you provide X special equipment." 

I find that diva candidates are often (not always!) those with a prestigious Ivy League pedigree.   Children of privilege, as it were. Native New Yorkers are sometimes divas because they're so provincial and insular they cannot conceive of things being done any other way than what they're used to.  These are gross generalizations, of course.

Basically, divas manage to give the impression that they think they are WAY too good for you.

[dagny]

My list of the worst from three recent searches:

1. frequent requests for a schedule over a week before hu was to arrive (after hu had been told exactly when hu could expect the schedule)
2. very last-minute requests to meet with certain faculty and deans (as in, e-mailing a new list the day before hu was to arrive on campus)
3. constant "how interesting!" comments, followed by an insult or criticism (e.g., "How interesting that you went to University of X for grad school! Yeah, I hear they have an okay program in your primary field.")
4. blatant sucking up to more senior, established members of the SC while totally dismissing the questions of younger, less well-known SC members (who, in two cases, were actually the SC chairs!!)
5. refusing to carry one's own luggage to the car upon hotel check-out
6. running the bill up in a major way at dinners out (I'm talking about pricey appetizer, most expensive entree possible, salad, soup, dessert....it was impressive)
7. insisting that hu had NO questions about the department, school, or town--saying that hu knew everything hu needed to know, and then insisting on spending endless minutes "pitching" huself in an embarrassing way to whomever was in the room

Grr, this "hu" stuff is exhausting!

I should mention that we're interviewed about a dozen people over the last several weeks, and most of these behaviors were exhibited by the same two candidates. Most of our candidates have been easygoing and pleasant; these two, who came in the same week, almost did us in!

[cronopio]

Dagny, the only cure for that is having a good laugh at their expense after the search is over. "Remember the candidate who stood there next to his suitcase waiting for one of us to carry it to the car"? HAHAHAHA. Remember the one who ate oysters, filet mignon, creme caramel, and ordered a 100 year old cognac"? HAHAHAHAHA. etc.

You can always tell if a candidate is "wrong" for you when you feel totally wiped out after the visit and delighted to see 'em leave!

[wordsmith2006]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I'm not a diva or totally socially oblivious, so I don't think I have to worry about making some of the gaffes people mention.  However, I do worry about making a "mistake" that I don't even know is a mistake, i.e. the thread about not being negative at all about anything!  Sigh...these "codes" of academia really are things one must learn, and conform to, I guess, if one is to land a highly competitive job.  I really think this sense of conformity is in tension with people's advice to just "be yourself."  Unfortunately, I think we have to cater a huge amount to those in power, those who can give us the tenure-track position with the benefits we crave, even as those with much less education take these salaries and benefits for granted.  But I guess that relates to the other thread that's going on, highly supply, low demand....  And, as the questions on this fora attest to, the conventions and expectations of the job search are frequently unknown or not explicitly stated, which causes a lot of anxiety! 

grumble grumble grumble

[rattusdomesticus]

I remember once being delayed for something like 17 hours at some horrible airport, being on the phone with the poor department chair up until 11pm checking in to assure him that I would eventually get in, and having him reschedule my interview (I finally arrived at my hotel at 4am). When the SC saw my exhausted self tucked into a business suit, a senior professor kindly asked how my flight was. I simply replied, "Oh, we had a delay but I'm glad to be here now..." No need for me to go on and on and on about what was a nightmare trip getting there.

Today I was borrowing some computer equipment and sitting at an administrative assistant's desk and got to hear some choice complaining from a candidate. It was just grouse, grouse, grouse with this poor man. Luckily some of it was self-deprecating (wait, that's bad for a candidate)-- like calling himself an "idiot" for not remembering which hallway he was in and how to find the room he needed to be in. He seemed very negative; in the fifteen minutes I heard his voice, it was just one complaint after another. I am hoping that he was just wiped out from the flight and whatnot... but I made a HUGE mental note to myself never to constantly complain during an interview. No matter how tired... do NOT go on and on and on about discomfort. No one cares. Hey, if they're on the SC (and have a faculty position), they've all been on bad flights, eaten peanuts for dinner, and slept in plastic chairs. I'm not special.  

[voxprincipalis]

Wordsmith, I read through your previous posts. You don't seem to be high-maintenance, but you do seem to be inexperienced. That's not a criticism, just an observation. After all, we all start out inexperienced! If you can, think of this and any other upcoming interviews as learning experiences. If a job comes out of one of them, great! But once you have a few of these under your belt, you'll have a much better intuitive sense of how to act, how to gauge your interactions with SC members, etc. This is something that only experience teaches. The dynamics of the job search are not deliberately hidden -- they are learned. (Most) adult behavior is not deliberately hidden from children -- it is learned gradually and must be practiced. Same here.

When you are there, talk less and listen more. That will tell you a lot. Obviously, talk about yourself when it's appropriate. But otherwise, let them lead in terms of social cues, managing the schedule, etc. Respond graciously, and be flexible and confident. The ideas of "be yourself" and "conform to the expected mode of behavior" aren't as contradictory as you might think. They're the same kinds of social accommodations we make every day. "Being yourself" doesn't mean going to the grocery store naked and singing "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" at the top of your lungs. Yes, be yourself -- but be yourself with the understanding that you are also part of a community, and that in order for the SC to pick you they have to be convinced that their community is going to be able to continue to function with you as an addition. Be yourself, but be you on your company behavior. If there is enough overlap between you being yourself and the cultural/behavioral atmosphere of the college, then it might be a good fit. If not, you don't want that job anyway. You don't want to have to pretend to be someone you're not for the next 30 years.

Also, if you are going into it with an unspoken attitude of "this isn't fair, I shouldn't have to conform to you, why should I have to kowtow to you just because you have the power" -- that may well come through whether you like it or not. Statements like that tell me that the speaker is still young and hasn't been around long enough to understand the dynamics of how the hiring process works. That's fine, except that people at that level are apt to make snap judgments, become defensive quickly, and have a sense of entitlement (I am not necessarily saying these things about you, wordsmith). As far as the college is concerned, the job search is not about you. It's about them. Their priorities are to see that their needs are met, which is reasonable and to be expected. Don't go into it expecting any particular kind of treatment. They are after what they need, and you are after what you need.

VP

[angel]

I really think this sense of conformity is in tension with people's advice to just "be yourself."  Unfortunately, I think we have to cater a huge amount to those in power, those who can give us the tenure-track position with the benefits we crave, even as those with much less education take these salaries and benefits for granted. 

grumble grumble grumble

I'm not convinced, unless 'conformity' means being gracious, considerate, pleasant, flexible, respectful, and polite. Or you're simply not anything of these things and have no intention of being so. A lot of the 'high-maintenance' comes from being demanding, consescending, and self-centered. Another chunk comes from needing extreme hand-holding. Surely there's a way to be generally polite, flexible, and pleasant on the one hand and be able to find out basic information, put together job talks, and carry your own luggage on the other without feeling the strictures of forced conformity and a strangling of individuality?

[yellowtractor]

I'm not convinced, unless 'conformity' means being gracious, considerate, pleasant, flexible, respectful, and polite. Or you're simply not anything of these things and have no intention of being so. A lot of the 'high-maintenance' comes from being demanding, consescending, and self-centered. Another chunk comes from needing extreme hand-holding. Surely there's a way to be generally polite, flexible, and pleasant on the one hand and be able to find out basic information, put together job talks, and carry your own luggage on the other without feeling the strictures of forced conformity and a strangling of individuality?

To reiterate:  if "being yourself" means being "being gracious, considerate, pleasant, flexible, respectful, and polite," then be yourself.  If "being yourself" means otherwise, now is a good time to practice behavior modification, if not as a lifestyle choice, then at least a career motivator.

Yes, this is potentially coercive advice.  We call it "civilization."

[wordsmith2006]

I'm all in favor of being polite.  In fact, I think I'm one of the more polite and considerate people I've met in my field and have pretty good social skills.  I'm not talking about conformity to being "civilized" and considerate and having good common sense.  I'm just saying that the whole job search process is mystified in a lot of ways--hence all the anxious questions and information being passed around on this board.  That mystification adds to my feeling that I have to kowtow more to what the SC wants than what I want to say.  I think Vox Principalis has a great point--I guess I just have to see if this works out *enough* for me as well. 

[iomhaigh]

You, OP, seem to be just run of the mill nervous.  We're good with that.  Don't be a hu-hole, and you'll be fine.  We know that there is no logic to this process.  We know that you are under vast amounts of stress. All that we ask is that you come in prepared to share yourself with us, and that you are pleasant and respectful about it. 

There is no rubric for the job search process.  The high maintenance people want there to be one, they want to know what it is, they want it in triplicate on gold-embossed linen cardstock with velvet trim, and they want it hand-delievered on a silver platter by a fleet of penguins -- preferably Emperor penguins, but those other kinds are okay in a pinch, I guess. 

[angel]

Hummmm. Ours want it dropped in by hot air balloon, but I think that's just a history thing.

[angel]

You, OP, seem to be just run of the mill nervous.  We're good with that.  Don't be a hu-hole, and you'll be fine.  We know that there is no logic to this process.  We know that you are under vast amounts of stress. All that we ask is that you come in prepared to share yourself with us, and that you are pleasant and respectful about it.

Perfectly put. And also what VP said.

[wordsmith2006]

You, OP, seem to be just run of the mill nervous.  We're good with that.  Don't be a hu-hole, and you'll be fine.  We know that there is no logic to this process.  We know that you are under vast amounts of stress. All that we ask is that you come in prepared to share yourself with us, and that you are pleasant and respectful about it. 

There is no rubric for the job search process.  The high maintenance people want there to be one, they want to know what it is, they want it in triplicate on gold-embossed linen cardstock with velvet trim, and they want it hand-delievered on a silver platter by a fleet of penguins -- preferably Emperor penguins, but those other kinds are okay in a pinch, I guess. 

Thanks, iomhaigh, and others.  Yes, I am nervous.

Penguins are so cute!  Maybe I should go to the zoo to see some and blow off some nerves... :)

[jammer]

Long time lurker here, but this thread made me want to share my recent experience.  I've never seen anything like it.  We had a candidate in a couple of weeks ago who was 90 minutes late driving in for the first night's interview dinner ("I just got caught up in my manuscript... I apologize for your 45 minute wait at the hotel lobby for me, but it just didn't occur to me to call"). 

When - after several phone calls and a trip back out to the hotel - the candidate finally got to dinner, he/she started the dinner conversation with "Some of my students say that I'm verbally abusive, but I'm just trying to get them to do their best work" and then talked nonstop for over an hour, finishing with " You know... my cv is just obnoxious."

Other things to say if you do not want an offer:

-"When I got my current job, I was so upset to see that all of my colleagues were my parents' age." (Make sure to say this in front of all faculty over the age of 45 or so)

-"I often have run-ins with my colleagues, but I guess I'm just tenacious when I think I'm right.  The only reason I lose is because my chair outranks me."

-"My high school is amazingly prestigious.  At my reunion last year, everyone was an investment banker, lawyer, brain surgeon, or something else equally impressive.  I guess we're all just destined for success."

-"You read the New York Review of Books?  I didn't know that you could get that out here."

-"Does it look better when the sun's out?" (when on city tour on a cloudy day)

Also please wait until about an hour before your job talk to ask for Powerpoint for your presentation, pick one or two faculty members (who are younger) and wink and smile at them conspiritoriously throughout. Refer mysteriously to a brand new article that was just accepted in a "very prestigious and important journal" - when it's not.  The faculty will not go back to your cv to see what was listed as "under review" and thus find out.  If possible, try to bully the Dean into telling you the exact dollar amount you will get when you're hired.

Finally, after talking continuously about yourself, your impressive background, your domineering father, and your "requirements" for a spousal hire in a different department, you will be asked if you have any questions about your future colleagues or the university.  Make sure you reply, "No, I think I know everything I need to know." 

And so do we...

[tamiam]

This stuff is hilarious!

Funny, I've never seen any of the behaviors described here as a hiring manager in the private sector.

Does academia attract a higher-than-normal proportion of arrogant, socially clueless misfits?

(I suppose that was a rhetorical question...)