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[dark_globe]

dark_globe said:

The rest of your post is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a response. As are all of your posts.

Wow.  Okay, evidently I've done something to make you mad (which is interesting, since we've never even "spoken" before). 

All of my posts?  Really?  Well, I'm glad you took the time to read them.

 

Yes, we have "spoken" in the Iran thread. And I've been reading the other threads in this forum, although I have no desire to contribute to them.

You haven't made me mad at all, I simply find you hysterical, irrational, and prone to make false claims.

[dark_globe]

Does that mean there aren't any problems within athletic departments?  Of course not.  But to have people lump athletes into the "dumb jock" category right off the bad, again, surprising to me.

You didn't see me doing that, did you? 

Me either. I stated that "College sports in their current state are an abomination and a disgrace to the entire academic tradition." That is a comment about how the programs are run and states nothing about the athletes themselves.

[case_insensitive]

Does that mean there aren't any problems within athletic departments?  Of course not.  But to have people lump athletes into the "dumb jock" category right off the bad, again, surprising to me.

You didn't see me doing that, did you? 

Me either. I stated that "College sports in their current state are an abomination and a disgrace to the entire academic tradition." That is a comment about how the programs are run and states nothing about the athletes themselves.

Yup!

[jonesey]

dark_globe,

I was a basketball guard and defensive tackle in high school. But then high school is for children. College is for adults.

This sounds, to me, like you're saying sports are fine for high school, but, once you're an adult, you stop playing.  The implication is that sports are childish and something to be put aside once a person turns 18.  Surely, you can see why I would think this was a negative comment. 

You also make a valid point regarding athletic programs at universities.

I simply find you hysterical, irrational, and prone to make false claims.

Spork calls for the nuking of Mecca in the "Iran" thread, but I'm the hysterical one?  Interesting.  As for "false claims" I made statements regarding Iran (and Iraq) based on credible sources, however, those sources don't jibe with what several of the other posters on that site have stated (and backed up with their own sources).  I'm not making things up out of the air.  I'm also not completely removed from the situation on the ground in the Middle East, which, I'll admit, tends to make some of my responses more "emotional" than "analytical."  It's also the first time I've been in a discussion where the majority viewpoint appears to be in line with the people this country is fighting against.  It's led to some interesting discussions, and some much-needed insight from a POV I never get to see.  If you see my more recent postings, there is a respect for the information provided on the discussion board.  I've never shouted, name called, or made any offensive comments to anyone here, on any thread, ever. 

And...I really don't like arguing with faceless people over the internet.  It's just not worth it.  Sorry again if I offended you somehow, it really wasn't my intention.  I was making a comment against the overall snarkiness that permiates this board, something that surprised me given everyone's occupation.  That's all it was.

[joehardy]

I'd love to get a response from someone on this forum who actually took part in college athletics, but there don't seem to be any; just a group of people who seem to have spent their formative years hiding from the jocks on campus...

In other words, we should be able to have a debate about athletics on campus without attacking the athletes.  Many college athletes have 3.0 GPAs; the stereotype of the "dumb jock" is both inaccurate and disturbing, especially coming from people who either teach at college, or aspire to. 

Agreed. I was a varsity member of the cross country and ice hockey teams as an undergraduate. Of course it was a small college  in what would now be called Division III of the NCAA. Nonetheless, I see the value to both students and to the institution of a good athletics program.
And, yes, there are many athletes where I teach who are fine students and many non-athletes who really should drop out and find something else to do with their lives.
That said, the current state of medium to large college athletics has gotten way, way, way out of hand.
Yes, a winning program can mean money for the institution but winning program doesn't mean always trying to be #1 in the rankings.
Also, it can be argued that smarter students (with athletic ability) make better athletes. Marginal students may be big or fast but not necessarily capable of making the quick decisions that most sports call for.
Even at my current small private liberal arts college we have to remind coaches of this from time to time. At one school where I taught, the baseball coach was quoted as saying to players, "I didn't bring you hear to go to school. I brought you here to play baseball!"  Based on his attitude (and losing record to boot) he was fired after a couple of years.
When I criticize athletics (here or in general) in conversations outside of class, most of my students know I'm speaking as a former student athlete. And many students - both athletes and non-athletes - tend to agree that things get out of hand even here. They resent fellow students who in their minds don't care about the school or even being here except for practices and games. I've heard football players express disgust over some of their teammates, some even saying, "A lot of these guys don't belong here."
As both a professor now and a college athlete some time ago, I believe (and believed) that sports are like the chess club or hiking club. They are extra-curricular activities. Period. They are not the reason for a college to exist. They are a valuable part of college life, but only a part.

[spork]

I'd prefer nuking every Division I football stadium in the country, but that would lead to a lot of fallout.

[jruiz]

I suggest this report on athletics prepared by the University of Colorado, Boulder.  It helps dispell numerous myths disseminated by the NCAA and athletic departments.

http://www.colorado.edu/FacultyGovernance/STCOM/ATHLCOMM/athletic-ref.html

[histanth]

Much as I like college football, I don't think that the system is salvageable. Either abolish intercollegiate athletics as it exists now, or leave it be.

[sikora]

There's a gender and diversity issue here, at least where I am working, and the administration is a little "tender" about it.  If the college I teach in were to back down on scholarship for athletes, the vast majority of students would be female (a trend all over the country). Moreover, a good portion of Latino and African American male students are athletes, and most are a long way from home. Non athletes come from the region. Black, Protestant males on athletic scholarships have the highest drop out rate.  The minority athletes are fully aware of this. I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but I only have 1 Black student who is not an athlete.  As far as I can figure, athletes are the only students here who are recruited; most other students come on their own.

Obscure, but still the first dog in space

[van_go]

There are a number of rules that are there to protect college athletes. No college coach is allowed to talk to any prospective high school athlete until July 1, going into their senior year. If you want to protect the athletes, enforce that rule. It would cripple a lot of recruiting efforts of college coaches.

Yes the original thread was "Looking out for the interests of college athletes," not subjecting them to more stereotypes. I could go to a chat room on ESPN and they would be speaking with more intelligence on college athletics than this boad is displaying.
So far, the suggestions on this thread include taking away scholarships, eliminating college athletics, redoing the entire system, and blowing up every D1 stadium in the country. And please, the fact that IVY League schools operate in a positive way without championship athletic teams is because they are the oldest and most established schools in the country and in some cases the world.

I'm not saying that NCAA athletics are perfect. They receive too much attention, funding, and too many parties have vested interests. Athletics is in the mist of becoming a commodity, but it is a reflection of our society and the high priority we place on sports. Also, I attend and work for a university that received half a million dollars because a large D1 school backed out of a contract we had to play them. Thus far, that has equaled our largest gift this year.