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[phddd]

     I'm just got my PhD an R1 where my husband also got his PhD (different field) a few years ago. As we have discussed our career-plans over the last few years, we both agreed that I was more committed to getting an academic job than he was-- this is bc he has more extra-academic work going on, and is less dependent on academia for career-stuff (i don't want to be too specific). In addition, bc of certain oddities about his work, over the past 4 years there have not been any jobs which look even vaguely appealing to him. So the plan was for me to apply to jobs and for him to follow along (all the while maintaining his extra-academic work and/or picking up teaching here and there).
     This year his old department (at our alma mater-R1) has listed a dream-tt-job which is practically designed for him-- and he's got a 90% chance of getting it-- I've put out applications for tts and postdocs, but so far no luck (though i was happy to be asked for more materials from my one dream-job). I'm loathe to return to our alma mater as the 'professor's wife' or to try for spousal hire, particularly since I've just barely gotten my PhD from the place. This sort of spousal hire seems like it would be a black mark against me-- both within the department and more long-term since I'm sure people (future hiring committees etc) know when your 'job' is a spousal hire. Also, the fact that it's where I *just* finished my PhD makes it even weirder. (Additionally, I feel that a spousal hire for a woman is somehow more problematic than for a man--so much historical baggage and associations with being 'the professor's wife...' though i'm sure there are difficulties either way.)
    But perhaps I'm being hasty-- a spousal hire is, after all, a HIRE. And I've heard (on these fora etc.) that once you're THERE, it's difficult to bargain for any sort of spousal hire (after the fact of being hired)... But what if--in a year or two--I was offered a spectacular job or postdoc: would there be a chance of the alma mater coming back and offering a spousal hire to keep the husband in place then?
Also, what if I am offered a postdoc somewhere across the country- is it possible to wrangle a "matching" (better) spousal hire from the R1-alma-mater in such a case? (The alma-mater-R1 is in a great location, whereas some of the postdocs I've applied to are in MUCH less desirable spots).... Would being offered a postdoc give us any more bargaining-power in trying to wrangle a spousal hire? Would it make the spousal hire less of a 'black mark'?
     Or am I just being overly optimistic in thinking that we could even wrangle a spousal hire since we're in different fields-- his dept would have to convince my ex-dept (i.e. where I just got my PhD- like a month ago) that they need to hire me....
     Here's the final twist in this saga: the R1 is a 7-hour-planeride from where we now (happily) live... so there's (unhappy) moving/distance involved... and I'd be happy not to move....(of course everything could be sadly solved if he isnt offered the job!)
     Thanks for any insights into this spousal-hire conundrum! (sorry for the long post.)

[offthemarket]

There are a lot of what-ifs in there.  So many that coming to a decision about most of them will be moot.  Decide how you feel, and then jump off the bridge when you come to it.  For all you know, you two just get one offer among them all, so that's the one you take.   Or you get your dream job, and him his, and so you then you have decisions to make - depending on whether spousal hires will happen.

I'm not sure how anyone can be 90% sure of a job offer until it arrives, but you know more of the situation that I do.  (If the search committee chair told me I was guaranteed the job, I'd peg it at 80%.  Maybe 90% if the Dean told me.)  Is this R1 known to do a lot of spousal hires?  This also is another huge assumption.

Since he likes the job ad, and there is some kind of possibility that you two would go, then he should apply, and if he gets and interview, do his best.  Then you can mull over your options after the interview and if an offer arrives.

Spousal hires aren't a black mark; they're a recognition that two people with talents are coupled.  Unless the person being hired is a major superstar, then the spouse will only be offered a job which is merited by their CV.

What happens AFTER a spousal hire is what is important.  If you do come up short, then people will say it was because you never were worthy and got the job through a spousal hire.  BUt in the majority of situations I am familiar with, the trailing spouse has ended up having a greater profile at the institution and in the field overall.  You're respected for the job you do.  If you're confident in your ability to hack it at the R1, spousal hire stigma - if it may exist at all - should fade with the pubs and grants of yours.

It has been known that a spouse can take a job at a different institution in a different place - and then see if either of the institutions will pony up a spousal hire to keep from losing their own faculty.  This, I think, will happen with more senior faculty who would be harder to replace - and perhaps in the same department, because it's hard for one department to convince another department to pressure the dean to hire someone.

In summary, you're getting ahead of yourself.  Apply for everything of interest, and make decisions when a fork comes in the road.

[spork]

There is no such thing as a 90% chance of getting an academic job.  He should apply and see what happens.  If there's an offer, the two of you can discuss it.

[dr_crankypants]

This is a potentially very difficult and awkward situation, and I'm hesitant to advise you.  But I would stress the potentially.  Like Spork, I'd raise questions about his certainty that he's going to be offered the job; there are too many stories of people who were told that they were shoo-ins for a job, only to find out that the job went to someone else.  This kind of situation, where presumably your spouse knows a lot of the people involved, seems like a situation where any insider comments should be taken with a pound of salt.  Realistically, it's rare for a department to hire its own back, unless that person has gone on to do something spectacular since.  It just looks like inbreeding, and this is going to be a challenge for your spouse's candidacy.

But, as far as spousal hires go, I understand that you would rather feel that you got the job on your own.  However, I don't think that there's as much stigma attached to a spousal hire, unless the spouse clearly doesn't live up to the expectations of the university (as onthemarket noted).

[phddd]

ok, so 90% was a MAJOR exaggeration! make it 33% chance of getting the job since there are probably 3 interviews. sorry!
Yes, it's all POTENTIAL, but obviously the issues are in the air and have got me thinking...
I think I have major hang-ups about the spousal hire thing, but I am glad to hear someone say that it (of course) depends on what one does once one (potentially) gets the job, spousal or not.
Happy to hear other thoughts on whether SPOUSAL HIRE is (by definition) a sort of "black mark," especially for a first job... and also whether folks think it is worse for a woman than for a man if only because of the historical associations. Obviously, I'm stirring the pot a bit with that question, but I am curious if people have different gut-reactions as to whether there is a different sort of *connotation*...

[dismal_sci]

Since you said you and your spouse were in different fields, I just wanted to point out something from my own experiences as being part of an academic couple.  Spousal hiring decisions can be made more easily if the two positions are in the same college.  In that case, just one Dean needs be convinced of the importance of hiring the couple.  If you and your spouse are in different colleges, it makes it more difficult because there may be no reason for the two Deans to cooperate.

[dagny]

Happy to hear other thoughts on whether SPOUSAL HIRE is (by definition) a sort of "black mark," especially for a first job... and also whether folks think it is worse for a woman than for a man if only because of the historical associations. Obviously, I'm stirring the pot a bit with that question, but I am curious if people have different gut-reactions as to whether there is a different sort of *connotation*...

No. I have been in departments with at least three couples that involved a spousal hire, two women and one man. In my experience, there was no difference in how people perceived them in terms of how they got their jobs. But as others have said, it all depends on what happens once you get there. In one case I've seen, the wife who "followed" her husband into the department soon outshined him in terms of grants and productivity. The other was "partnered up" with her husband in the lab as well as in life, and the two of them ran quite a program together.

If you do good work, nobody is going to think twice about how you got the job.

[velvetelvis]

Agreed.  And the scneario you paint is so hypothetical as not to be of concern.  WHEN he gets an interview or an offer, THEN you can plan your strategy.

VE.

[phddd]

Thanks everyone for the insights and reminders that this is all hypothetical. I am curious though: Velvetelvis says "WHEN he gets an interview, THEN you can plan your strategy..."
He HAS an interview.
I assumed that strategy can really only be planned if/when he gets a job offer. Or is there some disagreement on this point?