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[jackofallchem]

On our campus we have had several discussions over the years about hiring more minority faculty (we had very few when I arrived and have fewer now).  Every time we have this discussion, I bring up a point about salaries.  We pay very poorly, even for our region.  When doing job searches for our department, candidates have said "You're kidding!" and hung up on us when they heard the salaries. The way I see it, if we want to hire good minority faculty, we are going to have to do national searches and offer nationally (or at least regionally) competitive salaries.

Higher pay for the new hires brings up a potential problem.  The pay for the new assistant professor positions would be significantly higher than that paid to Associate Professor and even higher than some of the younger Full Professor positions.  Would that breed resentment in their departments (or across the campus)?  Would it be better to try to hire more experienced faculty into Associate/Full Professor slots to avoid such a problem?  Has anyone experienced this problem (or is it really a problem) and does anyone have any advice?  Every time I bring up this potential complication, everyone gets really quiet and the subject is changed.

[acrimone]

I don't know what the field is, but here's the deal:

If there simply aren't that many minority candidates, and all other things being equal (which they rarely are) most schools would prefer to have more of them, they are going to "sell" at a premium. 

The problems you point out are very real -- no one wants to be in a position where someone is getting more money because they happen to be a certain color.  But as long as that's going to be an express part of what it is you are seeking, you're probably going to have to pay for it.

My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

[case_insensitive]

Higher pay for the new hires brings up a potential problem.  The pay for the new assistant professor positions would be significantly higher than that paid to Associate Professor and even higher than some of the younger Full Professor positions. 

In my field (low supply, high demand) this is the norm...  Lots of new assistant profs are paid more than associate and full profs.

[always_seeking]

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

[acrimone]

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

[jobhire]

I can see now why you must be such a leader in your field. Your advice to people facing a challenge is: "give up and fold!"

I don't even see why you bother to type up such drivel. My advice to you when you contemplate offering useless advice: you're not worth the bother.

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

[jobhire]

PS: Don't worry about acrimone or any other troll from the jurassic era.

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

[acrimone]

I can see now why you must be such a leader in your field. Your advice to people facing a challenge is: "give up and fold!"

I don't even see why you bother to type up such drivel. My advice to you when you contemplate offering useless advice: you're not worth the bother.

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

Dear Jobhire,

I'm thinking of two ways to respond to this:

1) I really don't see what's so defeatist about admitting that the hassles that accompany a particular venture are disproportionate to the benefits.  I don't see much of an actual benefit to hiring minority faculty, and the hassles involved in trying to fill a spot with a minority can be extreme and can generate all sorts of unintended negative side effects, as the OP described.  So while I'm sure you disagree, I'm not ready to endorse the ceaseless, continuous smashing of one's head against a wall simply because someone, somewhere decided that the process should begin.  After the first couple hits, it becomes clear that the progress being made is not worth the pain.

or...

2) Dude, f*ck off.

Let me consider this for a while and I'll let you know with which one I am going to go.

[jobhire]

Yet another brilliant nugget of wisdom. Try posting again when you no longer have David Duke on speeddial.

I can see now why you must be such a leader in your field. Your advice to people facing a challenge is: "give up and fold!"

I don't even see why you bother to type up such drivel. My advice to you when you contemplate offering useless advice: you're not worth the bother.

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

Dear Jobhire,

I'm thinking of two ways to respond to this:

or...

2) Dude, f*ck off.

Let me consider this for a while and I'll let you know with which one I am going to go.

[jobhire]

Here's the deal: if you say something stupid, I'm going to call you on it. Like I said before, you and your opinions aren't worth the bother.

I can see now why you must be such a leader in your field. Your advice to people facing a challenge is: "give up and fold!"

I don't even see why you bother to type up such drivel. My advice to you when you contemplate offering useless advice: you're not worth the bother.

Acrimone,

Hmm.... what do you mean by, "My suggestion?  Don't worry about hiring minority faculty.  It's not worth the bother.

I hope that I'm taking that statement the wrong way and it's not a blatant racist statement. Explain.

I really don't know how to say it more clearly: It isn't worth the trouble trying to ethnically balance your faculty.

Dear Jobhire,

I'm thinking of two ways to respond to this:

1) I really don't see what's so defeatist about admitting that the hassles that accompany a particular venture are disproportionate to the benefits.  I don't see much of an actual benefit to hiring minority faculty, and the hassles involved in trying to fill a spot with a minority can be extreme and can generate all sorts of unintended negative side effects, as the OP described.  So while I'm sure you disagree, I'm not ready to endorse the ceaseless, continuous smashing of one's head against a wall simply because someone, somewhere decided that the process should begin.  After the first couple hits, it becomes clear that the progress being made is not worth the pain.

or...

2) Dude, f*ck off.

Let me consider this for a while and I'll let you know with which one I am going to go.

[prytania3]

This is just too funny.

No comment.

[drsyn]

On our campus we have had several discussions over the years about hiring more minority faculty (we had very few when I arrived and have fewer now).  Every time we have this discussion, I bring up a point about salaries.  We pay very poorly, even for our region.  When doing job searches for our department, candidates have said "You're kidding!" and hung up on us when they heard the salaries. The way I see it, if we want to hire good minority faculty, we are going to have to do national searches and offer nationally (or at least regionally) competitive salaries.

Higher pay for the new hires brings up a potential problem.  The pay for the new assistant professor positions would be significantly higher than that paid to Associate Professor and even higher than some of the younger Full Professor positions.  Would that breed resentment in their departments (or across the campus)?  Would it be better to try to hire more experienced faculty into Associate/Full Professor slots to avoid such a problem?  Has anyone experienced this problem (or is it really a problem) and does anyone have any advice?  Every time I bring up this potential complication, everyone gets really quiet and the subject is changed.

How do you attract good non-minority faculty?

Also, in my institution, new TT are being hired at a higher salary than many Associate.  It's called the associate professor squeeze.

[infopri]

I had an interesting chat during a recent day of interviews with the VP in charge of minority recruiting (faculty and students) at a very good SLAC in a very rural area.  Hu told me that the college has no trouble (or at least, not undue trouble) attracting minority faculty members.  The real problem is keeping them.  The town in which the college is located is VERY small and almost completely homogeneous.  This posed a problem especially for minority faculty who were single.  According to this VP, a huge proportion of the minority faculty pack their bags after a few years and leave for more heterogeneous schools/communities.

I know this doesn't answer your question, jackofallchem, but if your school or community is likely to cause the same problem, it's something else to consider in the cost-benefit analysis acrimone suggests.

[acrimone]

Still thinking, jobhire...

[Edited for inappropriate material. - the moderators]

(That's a good point, infopri, although I find it tiring that minorities feel they need to be around "people like them" to be happy, find love, etc.  While my good friend David Duke would probably disagree, I'm all for the mixing of the races.)

[jobhire]

There were some thoughtful comments posted in this thread while David D attempted to pull his head out of his a55. I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this topic also.