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[saltaire]

I have recently attended a job interview in a recognized, established University, and it went extremely well. I have been invited for the second round on Monday (15 January), and I have a strong feeling that my chances to land this job are very high. The job is rather technical, and does not include any teaching or research. As I have never worked in a University environment before, I would appreciate if you could share your thoughts on the following.

1.
I currently work in a financial organisation (one of the largest building societies in the UK). I am afraid that after a few years in the University I will find it difficult to move back to commercial sector. Universities seem to have a reputation of relaxed, stress-free environments, isolated from the real world.

Unfortunately, my current place of work does not offer me satisfactory opportunities for growth, and the top management is in mild panic about organisation’s performance. The New Year’s resolution is to do more work with less resources. (How clever!) So, although my current work experience looks great on paper, the future in this organisation seems dull.

The University I have applied to offers work on a considerably larger and more challenging project. If not the government/commercial sector dilemma, this would certainly represent a natural career progression (more responsibilities, more recognition and better package).

2.
My first interview was with technical, like-minded people (that’s why it went so well I suppose!) The interview panel for my second interview consists of people from all over the university, - head of the department, chairperson, HR representative... What sort of questions can I expect from these people? In general, my previous experience tells me that job interviews in the UK are held in extremely chaotic and unpredictable way, and this is a bit unnerving!

3.
As my current salary is just above the minimum reward offered for this post, is it reasonable to expect a salary closer to the top of their proposed range?

Also, are there any annual bonuses in universities, which I should consider?

4.
At the moment I am visibly pregnant (5 months). I haven’t mentioned this explicitly on the first interview so as not to compromise my own interests, but I wonder whether I should discuss this openly if I’m offered the job. At the same time my concern is that even if I announce the news before accepting the offer, the employer won’t be able to make any decisions based on this additional information lawfully, and I won’t get an opportunity to discuss these matters in an open way for legal reasons.

In addition, I can’t think of any constructive ways to help the employer deal with my absence during the maternity leave; in which case what’s the point of announcing it in the first place? Negotiating a contract with a start date 8 months from now (after maternity leave) is probably not realistic or feasible.

Any comments appreciated!

[expatinuk]

quote author=saltaire edited by expatinuk

1.
 Universities seem to have a reputation of relaxed, stress-free environments, isolated from the real world.

This is a view that is held by people who do not work in higher education. In fact it's actually extremely stressful and very involved in the real world. Most universities do a lot of income generating work with business and industry. I assume that you may be interviewing to work on one of these projects.

Unfortunately, my current place of work does not offer me satisfactory opportunities for growth, and the top management is in mild panic about organisation’s performance.

erm... this just sounds like every university in the UK.

The New Year’s resolution is to do more work with less resources. (How clever!)

This IS the view in higher education in the UK. If you think that you're going to land a job with cushy resourses where you don't have to watch every penny you're in for a disappointment.

3.
As my current salary is just above the minimum reward offered for this post, is it reasonable to expect a salary closer to the top of their proposed range?

No... you can't expect that. They will probably try to low-ball you. You then counter with what you consider acceptable and you work out a compromise.

Also, are there any annual bonuses in universities, which I should consider?

No

4.
At the moment I am visibly pregnant (5 months). I haven’t mentioned this explicitly on the first interview so as not to compromise my own interests, but I wonder whether I should discuss this openly if I’m offered the job. At the same time my concern is that even if I announce the news before accepting the offer, the employer won’t be able to make any decisions based on this additional information lawfully, and I won’t get an opportunity to discuss these matters in an open way for legal reasons.

Universities work under the same terms and conditions of employment for pregnancy as any other sector, so do not discuss it.

[scotia]

1. Universities seem to have a reputation of relaxed, stress-free environments, isolated from the real world.

This is a myth. I know of two excellent, conscientious administrators in my own School who have had to have time off work in the last year with stress-related illnesses and a couple more who are struggling. Many take work home in the evening. There may be a small minority of people who are able to adhere to the relaxed life style, but they are in a minority and being eased out (not always without pain) in my institution. The last thing the university sector needs is people moving in looking for an easy life.

The New Year’s resolution is to do more work with less resources. (How clever!) 

As Expatinuk says, just the same as the university sector.

In general, my previous experience tells me that job interviews in the UK are held in extremely chaotic and unpredictable way, and this is a bit unnerving!

It depends on who is doing the interviewing. I have had chaotic interviews in various locations and various sectors. I have always prepared for interviews in the same way - thoroughly so that there can be few things that I have not thought through.

[sassafrass]

Sorry, expat, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the maternaty leave issue.

OP: if you seriously want this job then you are under a (moral) obligation to inform your employer that if you are hired then you will almost immediately be taking your statutory maternity leave.

Whilst gender discrimination is still an on-going issue there is very good protection on this issue in the UK and I would encourage you as part of the negotiation process to negotiate job-share arrangements both before and after your maternity leave. You will most likely be part of Unison since it sounds like you are not classed as academic staff. Union protection is there for adiminstrative-related staff so don't be afraid to disclose your pregnancy!

Onto the other issue in terms of taking a Uni job and returning to the private-sector: Keeping up to date with industry-trends can be woven into your continuing professional development and personal development plans. So as long as you don't fall behind in your skills and knowledge by staying up to date with current trends you should be fine. Uni is not a black hole where people stop thinking and interacting with the world you know! We do a pretty fine job staying current.

Finally, salary: no employer in their right mind would put anyone at the top of the payscale. It just doesn't happen. They will most likely pay you more than your current salary but less than what you're expecting. But remember this is the public sector (essentially) so you move up an increment every year and get inflation rises. Bonuses don't exist...the money is not why one would work for a uni.

Good luck!

[saltaire]

This is a myth. I know of two excellent, conscientious administrators in my own School who have had to have time off work in the last year with stress-related illnesses and a couple more who are struggling.

Do you know what exactly is causing this stress, can you describe these reasons in more detail (to the best of your knowledge)?

Also, what about you? Do you feel that your own work is more stressful than it needs to be?

I have always prepared for interviews in the same way - thoroughly so that there can be few things that I have not thought through.

I believe every applicant is trying to prepare to their best ability, and I'm no different. My feeling however is that interviews in the UK are almost designed to uncover people's presentation skills, rather than their knowledge, work experience and competence. I will illustrate this with a question from my today's interview. The question was:

"How important are relationships with other people in your work, and what are you doing to improve them?"

The essence of this question seems so simple and so basic, that I struggle to build a logical and sensible answer quickly. The first thing which comes to my mind is "relationships are very important, and I'm doing everything I can to improve them". This is no good. But an exhaustive answer with excellent examples comes to people with good presentation skills, not necessarily to people who build good relationships. Do you agree?

I'm not trying to minimise the importance of good communication skills (and I work hard to improve mine as much as I can). It just seems strange to me, that most of the time allocated for an interview is filled with generic questions like the one I mentioned above, whereas ability to cope with day-to-day responsibilities of the role are rarely tested or discussed in any sort of detail.

[saltaire]

OP: if you seriously want this job then you are under a (moral) obligation to inform your employer that if you are hired then you will almost immediately be taking your statutory maternity leave.

Even though it's obvious that I'm pregnant?

It's not that I'm uncomfortable to bring up the issue, it's just that I can't see what is it that I need to tell and how on earth it's going to make anyone's life easier.

Also, it's hard to "seriously want this job" until the job (and the salary) is offered. But informing the employer about the pregnancy AFTER the offer is made has little value, don't you think?

They will most likely pay you more than your current salary but less than what you're expecting. But remember this is the public sector (essentially) so you move up an increment every year and get inflation rises. Bonuses don't exist...the money is not why one would work for a uni.

If I include my annual bonus in my current salary, this won't leave much room between this figure and the top of their proposed range. The increment and inflation rises don't seem too attractive either as I get an alternative of those at my current place (4-10% annual adjustment).

And if money is not the reason to work for a uni, than what is? ;)
(The question is actually serious, - what is it that you value in university work environment?)

Good luck!

Thanks. Today's interview didn't go nearly as well as the first one, so chances are I will be able to enjoy my pregnancy instead of making tough choices :)

[scotia]

This is a myth. I know of two excellent, conscientious administrators in my own School who have had to have time off work in the last year with stress-related illnesses and a couple more who are struggling.

Do you know what exactly is causing this stress, can you describe these reasons in more detail (to the best of your knowledge)?

Also, what about you? Do you feel that your own work is more stressful than it needs to be?

I know in one case the illness was caused by pressure of work. There are several different initiatives going on at the moment, with lots of associated paper work, academics who don't want to change the habits of a lifetime, and we are losing higher level administrative staff so those left have to do more. We have just come through a major restructuring but the pressure does not seem to be easing.

I am one of the said academics, so am probably contributing to their stress. In my case the main stressors are increasing student numbers coinciding with decreasing student quality - the good students are still good, but there is a tail that we would not have admitted a few years ago - and more and more paperwork taking up time when there is huge pressure to research and publish.

"How important are relationships with other people in your work, and what are you doing to improve them?"

......an exhaustive answer with excellent examples comes to people with good presentation skills, not necessarily to people who build good relationships. Do you agree?

This looks to me like 'dimensional' interviewing, where interviewers try to get beyond the stuff on your CV and get you to give concrete examples of how you have behaved in specific situations. I was trained to interview like this by one of the most highly regarded companies in the UK and was astonished when such questions were not asked at University interviews. The first part of the question looks a bit lame but the second part looks to me to be trying to probe how you go about building relationships at work, which I think is probably very relevant to the job as you have described it. I don't think it necessarily about good presentation skills more about a level of self awareness and critical evaluation. If you have not come across them before dimensional interviews are a bit of a shock, but they are generally regarded as being good practice.

Just to warn you, I took a 33% cut in my basic salary (don't even mention the fringe benefits!) when I moved into the University sector. I did it because I thought it was what I wanted to do (and most of the time it is).

I have never yet been offered a job from an interview I thought went well...... Good luck.

[sassafrass]

To OP:

I'm sure you did well...stay positive!

I'm a real bugbear on the whole disclosure issue because I think it's important to create the terms for a relationship with one's employer right from the begining. What I mean is being forthright and honest now will save you and your potiental employer hassle later on because you've been clear about who you are and your expectations from work.

(For those reading who are outside the UK and British employment protection this will sound mad but, hey, it's not a seller's market over here in terms of higher ed employment.)

This point is now moot since you've had your 2nd interview but: disclosing a pregnancy during the interview during 'Any questions for us'  period is key because you can start negoitiating your job share and you are showing the employer respect by letting them know of the issues that must be confronted if they appoint you. You're allowing both you and the employer to plan ahead to fill your vacancy whilst you are away and surely that's good for everyone!

Why work for a uni? For me it boils down to 4 things:

1. Being a lecturer is one of the best jobs in the world. Working with students, challenging and being challenged in your ideas and opinions (and being paid to do this!) is a truly unique experience.

2. As a corollary to point #1: public service. I've benefited from a fine education, good support and lots of opportunities. I want to give back but also work with others who want to give back as well.

3. If you are lucky to have a good instutitional culture then anything is possible in terms of your career development. Supportive managers and collegues are so important in helping you reach your career goals.

4. Summers off.

[saltaire]

I don't think it necessarily about good presentation skills more about a level of self awareness and critical evaluation.

I think self awareness is a good word to describe it. These questions seem to be related to the most basic level of the role, something you don't even consider in your day-to-day work. They aren't difficult to answer if you have the time to prepare. They are actually so broad you can easily write an essay or an article for a local newspaper! Yet giving the answer on the spot is a challenge.

Do you think there are any effective ways to prepare for such interviews, apart from the mere experience of attending them?

Just to warn you, I took a 33% cut in my basic salary (don't even mention the fringe benefits!) when I moved into the University sector. I did it because I thought it was what I wanted to do (and most of the time it is).

It must be good to feel so passionate about your work and be so determined about what you want to do. It's probably either very brave or very mad as well :) In my case however the role isn't that much different to similar roles in other industries, and I have no genuine reason to want it so much as to accept a package, lower than my current one.

I have never yet been offered a job from an interview I thought went well...... Good luck.

My interview took place at 3pm, and I've been told that I'd be contacted the same day. I am now properly confused as it's now the end of the week and I haven't heard from them. Obviously, this isn't a good sign, but I just wonder how long should I wait prior to ringing them for their decision. Even if I'm not successful, I want to get some feedback on my candidacy.

[saltaire]

...you are showing the employer respect by letting them know of the issues that must be confronted if they appoint you. You're allowing both you and the employer to plan ahead to fill your vacancy whilst you are away and surely that's good for everyone!

The question may be moot but remains interesting. The problem with 'showing respect' and 'letting them know of the issues' is that employer cannot respond to this announcement in an open yet lawful way. Every member of the interview panel may understand very clearly that my pregnancy brings additional complications to their recruitment process and management of the team. But almost any comment on the matter carries a risk of being interpreted as discriminatory, because it may suggest that my pregnancy will affect their final decision. So the only time when the employer can discuss my maternity cover and other issues comfortably is after the job is offered.

Why work for a uni? For me it boils down to 4 things:

Thanks for these! Regretfully, this hardly applies to my post (which, as I mentioned before, is not related to teaching or research).

[scotia]

Hi Saltaire,

Do you think there are any effective ways to prepare for such interviews, apart from the mere experience of attending them?

Attending them is definitely helpful. Before an interview you can look at a role and try to work out which 'dimensions' interviewers might look for. If you can come up with a list of specific behaviours and identify how you have demonstrated those behaviours - with concrete examples - you can adapt them to a range of questions. When I was finishing my PhD and looking for an industrial job a group of us formed an 'interview club'. We would look at the job descriptions for people who were about to be interviewed and try to think of the sort of questions that might be asked relating to the role. Because we knew one another well we were also able to practice answering 'awkward' questions; friends are really good at knowing what questions will be difficult for individuals to answer.

There are also some books that might help, but I haven't looked at them in a long time so can't make any specific recommendations.

It must be good to feel so passionate about your work and be so determined about what you want to do. It's probably either very brave or very mad as well :)

Definitely mad, but doing something you enjoy doesn't require much bravery. And I love learning and passing that learning on to others.
 

My interview took place at 3pm, and I've been told that I'd be contacted the same day. I am now properly confused as it's now the end of the week and I haven't heard from them. Obviously, this isn't a good sign, but I just wonder how long should I wait prior to ringing them for their decision. Even if I'm not successful, I want to get some feedback on my candidacy.

It is probably not good news if you are still waiting to hear. We usually call the successful individual on the day and send 'thank you, but you were not successful' letters to the other candidates once all the terms and conditions have been agreed. But, I have been involved in interviews where we have gone to a second choice after the we could not agree terms with the first choice. I would call if I had not heard 10 days after an interview and I have received some really helpful post-interview feedback in the past.

[saltaire]

My interview took place at 3pm, and I've been told that I'd be contacted the same day.

It is probably not good news if you are still waiting to hear. We usually call the successful individual on the day and send 'thank you, but you were not successful' letters to the other candidates once all the terms and conditions have been agreed.

I find it difficult to understand the benefits of this emergency-like policy, as well as how it actually works. It must take some time for the successful candidate to consider the offer, and accept it (supposedly in writing?) This means that unsuccessful candidates cannot possibly hear from the university the same day. Why not set people's expectations accordingly?

[wegie]

My interview took place at 3pm, and I've been told that I'd be contacted the same day.

It is probably not good news if you are still waiting to hear. We usually call the successful individual on the day and send 'thank you, but you were not successful' letters to the other candidates once all the terms and conditions have been agreed.

I find it difficult to understand the benefits of this emergency-like policy, as well as how it actually works. It must take some time for the successful candidate to consider the offer, and accept it (supposedly in writing?)

The offer is usually made on the same day. Only if you've been interviewed on a Friday afternoon is there any chance that the phone call won't arrive until Monday. Once you've verbally accepted, the contract will follow ASAP. Generally, unless there are significant obstacles (one poster recently thought that the job would be lovely, but just couldn't reconcile the family and finances for a move to London, for instance), you would expect the candidate to accept on the spot when the phone call arrives.

As a timeline consider the following, which is the actual timetable of how I got a job at a major university somewhere north of the Tweed/Solway line . . .

Friday afternoon: interview.
Friday evening: went out with then boyfriend to drown sorrows because I thought the interview had completely bombed.
Saturday 9am: phone rings at then boyfriend's place. Verbal offer made and accepted.
Monday pm: phone discussion about equipment, relocation costs and research and teaching expectations.
Wednesday post: contract arrives (alas after I'd left for work).
Wednesday pm: get home, sign contract, hunt around for a stamp.
Thursday am: post contract on way to work. Resign from job from hell.

This means that unsuccessful candidates cannot possibly hear from the university the same day. Why not set people's expectations accordingly?

But people's expectations are properly set. If you haven't heard, you know that you're not the successful candidate.

[saltaire]

wegie,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

But people's expectations are properly set. If you haven't heard, you know that you're not the successful candidate.

It wasn't clearly communicated that only the successful candidate will be contacted the same day. And because it's different from normal practice in private sector, I struggled to build any realistic and reasonable expectations at all. This forum helped me to understand that same-day contact is not uncommon in UK universities.

From my previous experience in private sector, the common practice seems to be to contact all the candidates at once, after the first-choice candidate has formally accepted the offer. This may easily take a week or two, or sometimes longer, as very often a successful candidate will be negotiating over a better package at his current place. It is just as common to keep negotiating the terms and conditions of the new contract, after the offer is made. In addition I have never come accross a policy to conduct all the interviews in very quick succession or make a decision on the day of the interview.

It also surprises me, that some people accept the offer on the spot (even though it involves relocation!) Maybe it's because people are better aware of what to expect from university environment once they're there. I would certainly prefer to meet my future colleagues again prior to making any decision.

[wegie]

From my previous experience in private sector, the common practice seems to be to contact all the candidates at once, after the first-choice candidate has formally accepted the offer. This may easily take a week or two, or sometimes longer, as very often a successful candidate will be negotiating over a better package at his current place. It is just as common to keep negotiating the terms and conditions of the new contract, after the offer is made. In addition I have never come across a policy to conduct all the interviews in very quick succession or make a decision on the day of the interview.

It also surprises me, that some people accept the offer on the spot (even though it involves relocation!) Maybe it's because people are better aware of what to expect from university environment once they're there. I would certainly prefer to meet my future colleagues again prior to making any decision.

The thing to note is that in the university sector, unless you're a research superstar who's being poached to up the RAE numbers, there's very little to negotiate. There's a national pay scale (and it's very likely that you'll be asked which spine point you're currently occupying if you're moving within the system), a unified pension scheme, little or no private health benefits (unless you're at the Pro-VC level or above) and pretty much standard relocation expenses. All you've really got to do is make sure they're paying your basic relocation costs and then (if you're a lecturer or researcher) quibble gently about your equipment budget and teaching contact hours.

It's also, even now after quadrupling in size since I was an undergraduate, a very small sector. The chances, in an academic or research job, that somebody from the UK won't know the people they're going to work with are actually pretty low. There are certain people who would probably run a mile from a job anywhere near me (not that I'm actually in the sector any more, thankfully ;-) and vice versa, with the result that candidate fields can often be pretty self-weeding!