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[treehugger1]

RMP <sigh>

I looked up one of my favorite undergrad professors and saw him stuck with a big, blue frowny face. His were the only interesting and challenging classes in my major. All the others were a joke.

<sigh>

I looked up two of my most awesome undergrad professors, and they both had consistently mediocre reviews on the site. I sighed, as well. Then, a year later, I learned (in some detail with both direct and indirect information) that actually - these professors had gotten crusty, their teaching had slid, and not been updated even though their fields had evolved a great deal. A lot can happen over 10-20 years.

Naaah. Not in his case. He was not well liked by most of the students back then either, and, it seems, for the same reasons as today -- he wasn't a nice professor. Challenging, interesting but not warm and fuzzy.  I was just upset to see the ratings be public and almost entirely negative. Maybe I should write in my own?

[neutralname]

RMP <sigh>

I looked up one of my favorite undergrad professors and saw him stuck with a big, blue frowny face. His were the only interesting and challenging classes in my major. All the others were a joke.

<sigh>

I looked up two of my most awesome undergrad professors, and they both had consistently mediocre reviews on the site. I sighed, as well. Then, a year later, I learned (in some detail with both direct and indirect information) that actually - these professors had gotten crusty, their teaching had slid, and not been updated even though their fields had evolved a great deal. A lot can happen over 10-20 years.

Naaah. Not in his case. He was not well liked by most of the students back then either, and, it seems, for the same reasons as today -- he wasn't a nice professor. Challenging, interesting but not warm and fuzzy.  I was just upset to see the ratings be public and almost entirely negative. Maybe I should write in my own?

Teachers don't need to be warm and fuzzy to be popular.  And of course, most of us don't need to be popular.  I'm not sure why it is a problem for it to be public information that a prof is not popular. 

Contributing to RMP with a real rating does mean endorsing RMP in some way.  Most forumites don't want to do that.  I am more pragmatic: if it might be useful or helpful, then do it.  RMP is a reality we have to live with, although I hope that a better ratings site eventually makes it irrelevant.

[treehugger1]

RMP <sigh>

I looked up one of my favorite undergrad professors and saw him stuck with a big, blue frowny face. His were the only interesting and challenging classes in my major. All the others were a joke.

<sigh>

I looked up two of my most awesome undergrad professors, and they both had consistently mediocre reviews on the site. I sighed, as well. Then, a year later, I learned (in some detail with both direct and indirect information) that actually - these professors had gotten crusty, their teaching had slid, and not been updated even though their fields had evolved a great deal. A lot can happen over 10-20 years.

Naaah. Not in his case. He was not well liked by most of the students back then either, and, it seems, for the same reasons as today -- he wasn't a nice professor. Challenging, interesting but not warm and fuzzy.  I was just upset to see the ratings be public and almost entirely negative. Maybe I should write in my own?

Teachers don't need to be warm and fuzzy to be popular.  And of course, most of us don't need to be popular.  I'm not sure why it is a problem for it to be public information that a prof is not popular.  

I found it problematic because it was public mockery of him. He never mocked his students, he just wasn't a nice-nice babysitter like the rest of the teachers in the department.

I realize that no one on this forum has any power whatsoever over RMP. That's one immovable element of the current landscape and we just have to live with it, apparently. What I do see, however, is many, if not most here unable to deal with cognitive dissonance -- to accept it as a fact and yet see that it is extremely problematic.

Why is it problematic?

1. Anyone (not just any student, or any student in a particular class) can take revenge on a teacher by saying whatever they want to say. I've often heard that one can tell the truth from the untruth by the style of the writing/the pattern of the posts/the repetitiveness of the writing. But in fact, you can't tell the truth. You just think you can.

2. There is this bizarre double discourse re: RMP. On the one hand, it is described as something no too take seriously by those seeking to cheer up profs with frowny faces. And yet, if one takes a little stroll over to the "Job-Seeking Experiences" forum, you will see posters sadly admitting, that yes, indeed it does count -- that rightly or wrongly, SCMs seeking to prune the tree of potential candidates will find any excuse to sheer one off. (Bizarrely, I'm reminded of the US's discourse prior to the invasion of Iraq. "Oh it's a cakewalk, no problems." "Oh, they're so dangerous, they have WMD, etc.")

3. Even if RMP does correlate with evaluations, as some here protest, that doesn't solve problem #1. Besides, saying that RMP correlates with evaluations is a very, very weak defense. At most, it shows that RMP doesn't hurt, not that it actually offers something that in-school evaluations shared on-line with other students from the university only does not.

4. "Evaluations" of professors on RMP are not only public, but also permanent. If one decides to leave teaching and attempt another career in these difficult times, RMP "evals" can be a potential liability. Future employers might not know how to take RMP with a grain of salt. Or, (gasp) they might not be completely rational in their choices. Ever heard of the halo pitchfork effect? I've also heard people say that one shouldn't want to work for anyone or any place that takes RMP seriously. Well, guess what? With the current economic climate, people don't always have such a wide range of choices.

5. RMP is not a public service. It is part of the entertainment industry. (It is owned by MTV/Viacom). Is it OK for MTV to earn money from the public mockery of even one professor? Do you value your profession more than this?

OK, there is probably a 6, 7 and 8, but I think that's enough for now.

[larryc]

Treehugger, you are tilting at windmills.  RMP is what it is and there is nothing to be done about it.

[treehugger1]

Treehugger, you are tilting at windmills.  RMP is what it is and there is nothing to be done about it.

Yeah. I said as much at the beginning of my post:

I realize that no one on this forum has any power whatsoever over RMP. That's one immovable element of the current landscape and we just have to live with it, apparently.

What I'm protesting is the tendency to slip from this realization into self-deception: condoning the site/making up excuses for it/saying that it doesn't matter -- just because it makes us feel better.

[bonn1997]

If you don't want RMP to hurt you when applying for jobs, then just type many highly positive reviews of your teaching. No one has an excuse to be harmed by RMP.

[treehugger1]

If you don't want RMP to hurt you when applying for jobs, then just type many highly positive reviews of your teaching. No one has an excuse to be harmed by RMP.

Sand. Insert head.

[conjugate]

If you don't want RMP to hurt you when applying for jobs, then just type many highly positive reviews of your teaching. No one has an excuse to be harmed by RMP.

A SCM once wrote that his or her committee rejected an applicant who had clearly made up many RMP posts.  It's been a few years, and I don't remember the thread, but it can be pretty obvious when a professor writes a self-review.

[treehugger1]

If you don't want RMP to hurt you when applying for jobs, then just type many highly positive reviews of your teaching. No one has an excuse to be harmed by RMP.

A SCM once wrote that his or her committee rejected an applicant who had clearly made up many RMP posts.  It's been a few years, and I don't remember the thread, but it can be pretty obvious when a professor writes a self-review.

Yeah. Like when a prof has 10+ mediocre or poopy reviews (of the type "too hard;" "total disaster;" "XXXX walks like a big, fat chicken"), then tries to right the balance with 10+ fairer reviews. No matter how artfully crafted, it's going to look strange. Besides, there's the whole issue of "cheating, philosophy of."

[bonn1997]

If you don't want RMP to hurt you when applying for jobs, then just type many highly positive reviews of your teaching. No one has an excuse to be harmed by RMP.

A SCM once wrote that his or her committee rejected an applicant who had clearly made up many RMP posts.  It's been a few years, and I don't remember the thread, but it can be pretty obvious when a professor writes a self-review.

Well if you're as concerned and upset by RMP as treehugger appears to be, you could monitor your profile and every time a critical review is posted, post one or two reasonably positive ones.

My RMP mean at my previous school is a 4.5 out of 5.0 (based on 3 reviews) and I think it's rare that students will go on RMP and screw a good professor who treated them with respect.

[prytania3]

I was considering looking at my RMP. Students tell me there is a lot of really outstanding stuff there, but I'm not sure I have the nerve.

I bet you have a chili pepper, Pry.

I wonder if anybody has done any real research on the validity of RMP ratings as compared to student evals (at the same school) as compared to other kinds of data on teaching effectiveness.  Half of folks say all student opinions about our teaching are total bulls***, and the other half say it's all fairly accurate.  I'd like to actually have some idea of which faction is correct.

Well, I would guess that of the instructors that are rated low on RMP, about half are truly bad, and about half didn't give special snowflakes the grade that they thought they deserved.  Of the instructors rated highly, about half are probably really good while the other half are easy A's/panderers/really hot*.  
I think that while whiners and people who had their egos stroked (or who had the hots for an instructor) are very likely to post on RMP, other students who had a particularly good or bad experience in a class are also likely to post their experience on RMP.

* - of course, there are also instructors like Pry who are truly good and really hot

Mousie, you make me blush.

[polly_mer]

My RMP mean at my previous school is a 4.5 out of 5.0 (based on 3 reviews) and I think it's rare that students will go on RMP and screw a good professor who treated them with respect.

Possibly, possibly not.

I know some good professors who treat students with respect in all the times that I have observed, but who have terrible RMP reviews.  The students were/are angry that the professors required work in classes that the students didn't want to take (for example, freshman general chemistry or general physics), the students fail, and the students blame the professor.

[treehugger1]

Just chiming in again.

I treated my students with respect. And in in-class evals, I always scored the highest in this category. However, not all my RMP ratings were respectful. And, worse yet, I had one rating (my first one) which was primarily positive, respectful, well-written, but ended with a total lie about something I had supposedly done -- a lie which made me look unprofessional. I was shocked. There was no way to tell from the review that it was a lie -- something concocted about my having "incorrectly" marked a D in my gradebook, when the student had supposedly earned an A, then totally blowing her off when she complained about it. The truth? She earned a D and I marked it as such. Apparently, she wasn't thrilled with her grade.

[bonn1997]

Just chiming in again.

I treated my students with respect. And in in-class evals, I always scored the highest in this category. However, not all my RMP ratings were respectful. And, worse yet, I had one rating (my first one) which was primarily positive, respectful, well-written, but ended with a total lie about something I had supposedly done -- a lie which made me look unprofessional. I was shocked. There was no way to tell from the review that it was a lie -- something concocted about my having "incorrectly" marked a D in my gradebook, when the student had supposedly earned an A, then totally blowing her off when she complained about it. The truth? She earned a D and I marked it as such. Apparently, she wasn't thrilled with her grade.

How do you know who the student was?

[treehugger1]

Just chiming in again.

I treated my students with respect. And in in-class evals, I always scored the highest in this category. However, not all my RMP ratings were respectful. And, worse yet, I had one rating (my first one) which was primarily positive, respectful, well-written, but ended with a total lie about something I had supposedly done -- a lie which made me look unprofessional. I was shocked. There was no way to tell from the review that it was a lie -- something concocted about my having "incorrectly" marked a D in my gradebook, when the student had supposedly earned an A, then totally blowing her off when she complained about it. The truth? She earned a D and I marked it as such. Apparently, she wasn't thrilled with her grade.

How do you know who the student was?

I looked back in my email and saw that I had sent a response to a certain student that involved the details mentioned -- "D" earned vs. a "A" "deserved", a polite suggestion on my part that she come speak to me about it at the beginning of the next semester (which she ignored) -- on the very same day that I got that RMP "eval." Heck, the RMP rating was posted something like 10 minutes after the time stamp in my email. It was either her or a really, really strange coincidence.