markplus
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« on: December 24, 2006, 12:31:15 AM » |
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I don't know if I've chosen the right forum for this question, but here goes:
Have you ever heard of a case where a university graduate asked his school to revoke his degree because he had an unsatisfying experience there?
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zharkov
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2006, 11:00:35 PM » |
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I seem to recall a top U, maybe MIT, pulling someone's degree because the person did something pretty bad, perhaps academic fraud.
For your question, however, "unsatisfying experience" seems a curious rationale for your asking about having your degree revoked.
You need sufficient time to judge whether the experience was valuable, say 10 years. I like to say the that real customers of a college are the people who my students will be in 10 years.
I also don't quite know what "satisfaction" you are looking for. What, specifically, is your beef?
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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markplus
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2006, 11:41:05 PM » |
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It's a long story, but I graduated from the institution in question with a bachelor's in mathematics in 1985. For complicated reasons I felt like I got stuck with the academic equivalent of damaged goods, and I've only been able to get the kinds of jobs since then that I would have been able to get with just a high school diploma. Even to this day the institution has never shown any intention of trying to operate as a serious university, despite having several Ph.D programs and a current endowment in the $700 million ballpark. Almost every news story I find about it on the Web involves either sports or athletics, for example.
The sunk costs in getting that degree don't matter now, and I would feel a lot better about my life if the university revoked it.
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helpful
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2006, 11:55:58 PM » |
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At least tell us what state it is in!
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zharkov
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 03:27:41 PM » |
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It's a long story, but I graduated from the institution in question with a bachelor's in mathematics in 1985. For complicated reasons I felt like I got stuck with the academic equivalent of damaged goods, and I've only been able to get the kinds of jobs since then that I would have been able to get with just a high school diploma. ...
A BA in math is a liberal arts degree, not a professional/vocational degree. Unless you minored in ed, there is not a direct job for someone with your degree, although a college pal went into computer programming with that background. I think someone else I knew became an actuary with a math degree. So, if your beef is you couldn't get the job you wanted with a BA in math, I'd say you misunderstood what a liberal arts degree is all about, or you were misled. FWIW, the advice I'd give to someone with a BA in math who is looking for a career is to go to grad school and get an MBA in finance, an MS in computer science, or a PhD in economics. Naturally, if you get your degree revoked, you can't go to grad school, since a BA is required. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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csguy
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2006, 06:25:06 PM » |
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I'm not sure there's a big difference between BA Math and BS Math (depends on the program of course).
Generally Math people in industry do quantitative analysis in one form or another -- modelling, simulation and the like. Finance is probably the hottest field moneywise. Crypto is good too.
In general Math works best when combined with something else (CS is getting that way too). A BA Math probably won't get you too far.
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philoctetes
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2006, 02:40:46 AM » |
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If you think the reputation that the school has has harmed your career. I am sure that you will be much worse off without it. A BA does not qualify you for any job. The only difference I noticed when I was in industry with the hiring and promotion of people to and from entry level position was that promotions were more quickly given to people with degrees. Not just because of the education that they afforded, but I think most often because of a correlation between being the sort who can finish a degree and being an effective employee. The trap a lot of people I know fell into after their undergraduate degrees was taking, somewhat well paying dead end jobs (tipped jobs for instance), rather than low paying jobs that could lead to something. It's a long story, but I graduated from the institution in question with a bachelor's in mathematics in 1985. For complicated reasons I felt like I got stuck with the academic equivalent of damaged goods, and I've only been able to get the kinds of jobs since then that I would have been able to get with just a high school diploma. Even to this day the institution has never shown any intention of trying to operate as a serious university, despite having several Ph.D programs and a current endowment in the $700 million ballpark. Almost every news story I find about it on the Web involves either sports or athletics, for example.
The sunk costs in getting that degree don't matter now, and I would feel a lot better about my life if the university revoked it.
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markplus
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2006, 08:48:58 PM » |
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At least tell us what state it is in!
A private university in Oklahoma. |
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markplus
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 09:02:30 PM » |
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If you think the reputation that the school has has harmed your career. I am sure that you will be much worse off without it.
I don't see how that follows. None of the full time jobs I've gotten since 1985 have required a college degree, and I wouldn't lose my current job if my degree disappeared. My degree wouldn't help me in any future jobs I'd have to take, either, given my college-unnecessary work history. I realize i have trouble explaining my desire for degree revocation in a "normal" sounding way. I've have an odd set of experiences that make the idea sound desirable to me. I also find it difficult to believe that I'm the only person in the country to have thought of doing this. I'd like to find at least one precedent to study for some strategy ideas. |
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drsyn
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2006, 10:00:42 PM » |
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How would you handle the revoked degree? Would you just not mention it on your resume and pretend that you never earned it?
The only reason that I have ever heard of a university revoking a degree was when the graduate in question had been found culpable for extreme dishonesty - like Schon. Even then some people thought it was harsh. (me included)
How can you be sure that a potential employer won't assume that you lost your degree because you were guilty of dishonesty?
What job were you intending to get with a BA in math? Did you check the job market before you committed to the degree? Did you find out what employers in your field look for in qualified candidates? Many times it's what you do beyond just attaining a degree that gets you a job. What was your GPA? While people will tell you that 10 years after you graduate, no one will care what your GPA is - your first employer will certainly care.
Dr Syn
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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS
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zharkov
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2006, 09:25:05 AM » |
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If you think the reputation that the school has has harmed your career. I am sure that you will be much worse off without it.
I don't see how that follows. None of the full time jobs I've gotten since 1985 have required a college degree, and I wouldn't lose my current job if my degree disappeared. My degree wouldn't help me in any future jobs I'd have to take, either, given my college-unnecessary work history. First, your career so far has been your choice. Even if your entry-level job didn't require a degree, as one moves up in an organization, the need for a college degree to advance becomes more important. Second, b/c you said you graduated in 1985, I'd assume you are about 40 and thus have about 25 to 30 more years of work ahead of you. Thus, your career is less than half over. Now is the time to get that teaching certificate or MBA, and do something more satisfying with the rest of your life. You need that BA to get a teaching certificate, MBA, or most kinds of advanced education. Of you may choose not to, of course. But don't blame your alma mater for your career choices. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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adjunk
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2007, 03:22:45 PM » |
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Do you want your money back? Is that the issue? In all seriousness, I think this raises a fairly legitimate question--should colleges that advertise the value of their 150K+ degrees stand behind those degrees with some sort of customer satisfaction guarantee or warranty? At one time this would have sounded ridiculous, but in today's consumerist academic climate in which the student is seen more and more as a customer, the question needs to be raised.
If your college has damaged its reputation, perhaps by becoming known as nothing but a party school, or slipping considerably in all of the national rankings, and you believe the degree you possess no longer has the value the college claimed it would have, I would think your best option, however far fetched, is to see if any other alumni feel the same way, and then as a group you can consult an attorney about a possible class action consumer lawsuit.
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zharkov
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2007, 07:12:23 PM » |
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Do you want your money back? Is that the issue? In all seriousness, I think this raises a fairly legitimate question--should colleges that advertise the value of their 150K+ degrees stand behind those degrees with some sort of customer satisfaction guarantee or warranty? At one time this would have sounded ridiculous, but in today's consumerist academic climate in which the student is seen more and more as a customer, the question needs to be raised......
My school's catalog actually has a disclaimer that says something like a college degree is no guarantee of landing a job. BTW, we have mostly professional majors. If the OP's school did make such promises, then I'd guess there may be grounds for a suit; but I strongly suspect no such promises were made. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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msoexpert
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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 04:23:33 PM » |
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I just cannot see the reason why the graduate would want to revoke the degree. If it's "worthless" or was a "hellish experience," then you'd demand your money back and "hide" the degree off your resume.
Now I do know of cases where the school has revoked the graduate's degree because of some very serious issue that has come up. For example, one student plagiarized his thesis, which means he really didn't complete that component of the graduation requirements, so he really didn't earn it.
But I'm not aware of any student who has asked the school to take it back. Even at University of Phoenix online, which has an "iffy" reputation.
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ngs_gmail
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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 04:35:48 PM » |
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I'm sorry, but the original question just sounds like someone in a snit. "I hated my school and so I'm going to tell them to take my degree and shove it! That'll show 'em!"
Huh? No it won't. It just shows that you had a bad experience. Making the school take your degree back would accomplish nothing. You won't get your money back, and the school isn't going to scramble to change its ways just because of one student who decided, 20 years after graduating, that the school sucked. Please.
If you think the school sucked, take your degree off your resume and be prepared to explain why you don't have a BA. If I were an employer looking at your resume, and was told about the whole "revoked" degree thing, I'd toss your application into the nutjob pile. "I didn't like my school, so 20 years after graduating I made them take the degree back!" Who would hire that?
Get over it. Lots of people didn't like their college experience, and MANY feel they didn't get their money's worth. Move on.
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