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[ingemar]

i totally agree with that,

all the best from

Berlin
Ingo

[reiner_torheit]

Why am I boycotting this vile movie?  Because it is a cheap racist stunt, and those who defend it are cheap racists.  Living and working here in Moscow (the one in Russia, not the smaller one in Canada), I have quite a lot of dealings with colleagues and friends from Kazakstan - it is, after all, the country next door to us. I mention this because we know you don't have maps in America. (The "h" in Kazakstan is redundant - since you invented the Harvard Convention of transliteration from cyrillic, please use it?)

What, exactly, did anyone in Kazakstan do to deserve the ridicule Sacha Baron-Cohen pours upon their country?  They allowed you to build airbases wherever you wanted for your sooo-successful (irony) war on Afghanistan.  They even backed your dumb war against Iraq (Kaysixteen, are you listening?) and were one of the famous "33" signatories supporting America's attack.  Oh yeah, and they sell you their oil and gas cheap (Cheney flew on to Kazakstan to thank its Government, after attacking Russia from the safety of Estonia.  Gee, thanks - no wonder they call you "Dick").

But some people believe that stereotyping people as homophobic, anti-semitic, sexist, racist boors is quite ok,  provided that those people are in a country a long way away from the United States and which probably might not exist anyhow as she has never heard of it before.  No matter that Kazakstan is a key American ally - and boy, you really have very, very few of those left in the world after your recent behaviour.

Britain, your spineless ally in your hokum war, has a law against inciting racial hatred.  It's also the birthplace of Mr Sacha Baron Cohen, the talentless fool behind the "Borat" character.   But will Britain use its race-hate laws against Cohen?   No, they're too far in America's pockets.

In reality - were Cohen not so misinformed - Almaty, the Kazak capital, was one of the three cities in the USSR days were liberals (including jewish liberals) gathered away from Moscow's iron grip. (The other two were Leningrad and Tbilisi).  Kazakstan has a rather good record on relations with ethnic minorities - for example, there is a large Korean minority living there, alongside Uighurs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, and other ethnic groups.

However, crass stupidity about the nature of the Kazak capital has a three-decade pedigree.  Ronnie Reagan, on his famous visit to the USSR in the 1980s,  had predetermined he would make a vicious criticism of religious repression during his trip - that kind of thing plays well with the Moral Majority in the USA, doesn't it?   But somehow he forgot about this in Leningrad and Moscow,  so Almaty was the last place left on his route.  He waited until he stood for a photocall above a panoramic viewpoint of the cities skyline, complete with its mosques and medressehs,  and then said solemnly "I long to hear the churchbells ring over this fair city".

Ronnie went on to fund the Taliban, of course.

So Borat's racism is quite ok - because it targets people far away, about whom you rarely hear in America.

Please, please - give your child at atlas of the world this Christmas, Americans? 

[dark_globe]

Cohen is also being sued by the Romanians. He apparently duped them into believing he was filming a documentary about hunger. I'm convinced the man has no conscience.

[larryc]

Americans?   And try not to be so dumb in future??

Isn't Cohen a Brit?

[chewydog1]

I am curious abou the anti-gypsy prejudice.  Is this a wide-spread thing?

My Great-grandmother came over from the old-country and was terrified of gypsies  In the country from where she originated, so the story goes, if a band of gypsies came into town and they asked for anything, you were to give it to them.

Why?  Because they would put a curse on you.  These were very superstitious, and so this was a serious thing. Of course, there were also stories of the bands coming in and just plain taking the stuff and vandalizing your home in the process. 

What I have just related is a story handed down by my great grandmother to me.  I have never met a gypsy, or if I have I didn't know it.  Frankly, I could care less if someone was a gypsie or not.  It is interesting that this experience that my greatgrandmother supposedly had in her old country was so strongly entrenched in her beliefs.  You have to ask how much of the story was true. 

If a small segment of gypsies partook in these kinds of things, you can understand how people could develop predudice against this group.  It is our responsiblity to make people realize that this specific incident cannot be generalized to the entire race, individuals are not a population! 

I guess I am just trying to point out something that might help others investigating these prejudices in order that they may figure out ways to alleviate them. 

[dark_globe]

Your post is very encouraging, chewydog. I agree completely that understanding and mutual interaction is the true key to attaining peace.

First, they are the Roma. The word "gypsy" has the same connotation for them as the "n" word does for blacks. It is also where the term "gyp" comes from.

With a population of perhaps 20 million, they are second behind the Kurds as the largest ethnic group without its own state.

Anti-Roma prejudice is widespread throughout Eurasia. The Roma have been treated as outcasts for centuries, and have never been allowed to integrate into any society. The myths about them stealing babies and the like are just that, myths (the Turks have similar myths about the Kurds). In many Roma communities unemployment is nearly 100% because of job discrimination.

Although I'm not well versed in Roma issues, Jarmila Lajcakova, Shannon Woodcock and Eben Friedman have all recently done work on this question.

[chewydog1]

I had no idea that gypsy racial slur! 

As Roma, do they come from ancient Rome? or what is their origin??

[larryc]

"The Roma People (singular Rom; sometimes Rroma, Rrom), sometimes called "Romany Folk" in the United Kingdom, often referred to as Gypsies or Gipsies, are a diverse ethnic group who live primarily in Southern and Eastern Europe, Western Asia, Latin America, the southern part of the United States and the Middle East. They are believed to have originated mostly from the Punjab and Rajasthan regions of India. They began their migration to Europe and North Africa via the Iranian plateau around 1050."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people

[dark_globe]

I had no idea that gypsy racial slur! 

I only learned this recently myself.

[oldfullprof]

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm basically against mindless PC as elitist and language destroying.

However, Borat was a real piece of sh*t, unfunny, boring, and anti-human.  As a sociologist, I felt I should see it.  Walked out halfway through where the Jewish couple were compared to cockroaches. 

[dark_globe]

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm basically against mindless PC as elitist and language destroying.

However, Borat was a real piece of sh*t, unfunny, boring, and anti-human.  As a sociologist, I felt I should see it.  Walked out halfway through where the Jewish couple were compared to cockroaches. 

I was glad to read your post. From the clips I've seen of the film (I won't put money into Cohen's pocket so I haven't seen it) I thought some of it seemed on the level of Howard Stern and some of it very "anti-human," as you put it. I was wondering if I was prejudiced because I find Cohen himself repugnant. I guess not.

[zharkov]

I am curious abou the anti-gypsy prejudice.  Is this a wide-spread thing?

Roma was one of the groups that Nazis targeted to go to concentration camps, along with Jews, gays, socialists, JW's, etc.

About the film, haven't seen it yet, but my take on based on reviews is that the Borat character is like an Archie Bunker on steroids with respect to his ethnic, etc., comments.  That is, we're supposed to look on the Borat character with disdain for his prejudice, not embrace his prejudice, as was expected with All in the Family.

[alqahiri]

Borat takes on many of the characteristics which are stereotypically associated with Turks in Europe. I think in a way it symbolizes what would happen if Turkey were in the EU. Borat obviously is an out of place character in the West despite his desire to be there.

I have mixed feelings about Baron-Cohen's comedic style in general. I can see how it can be funny to people who are detached from the social commentary he makes. But understanding the context, it just seems meanspirited. Ali G is basically an Asian gangster who has not gained an English identity and has lost his Asian identity, the character almost portrays Asian immigrants as no longer belonging anywhere.

[abuflletcher]

Borat takes on many of the characteristics which are stereotypically associated with Turks in Europe.

Actually, I read that there is a Turkish journalist who claims he was the model for the Cohen Borat character.  Apparently this guy has blog where he posted in mostly unintentially funny English and there was even a shot of him wearing embarrassingly short shorts while playing ping-pong.  And I guess he became one of the internet cult phenomena. 

[jonesey]

Uh, maybe it's just me, and I'm getting a feel for the site still (and academic life in general, which, I hope, isn't as "let's all hold hands and sing songs and pretend we're still in the 1960's" as it sometimes appears to be) but...

IT'S A MOVIE.  It's comedy.  Period.  South Park is comedy.  Maybe you don't find it funny, but, c'mon, it's just comedy.  Did it offend you?  It was supposed to.  Humor (good humor, anyway) isn't politically correct.  I agree with Oldassprof, above, about "mindless PC."  Really, I'm just tired of it. 

Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not suggesting that blackface be brought back, or anything of that nature, but to compare Borat with blackface is just missing the point. 

So, really, do you think Mr. Cohen (who's Borat screenplay has just been nominated for an Academy Award; I'm sure that will make some of you, literally, sick) hates Gypsies?  Turks?  Muslims?  Jews?  (Wait, he is Jewish, so nevermind). 

Or, was he just making a movie, and tweaking the noses of people who take this sort of thing waaaay too seriously? 

Really.  There's a war on, and this is what people are loosing sleep over?  The guy from Russia...I have no words, honestly, except that Russia isn't really in a place to critique anything.